{"id":"qdc749381ff485c211d8f","batch_id":"batch-000129","seq":136,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-06-30T07:22:32.312Z","text":"这是一个可以直接质疑的司法错误\n托雷斯的判词写道：\"二巡在Honeycutt之后重申，政府不需要证明被告个人保留或直接占有财产，没收依然适用。\"\n这个表述把一个民事罚款案件的法律标准，嫁接到了刑事没收的语境中，而这两者恰恰是Honeycutt费尽全力要区分清楚的两个不同制度。Honeycutt本身的核心论证，就是刑事没收（forfeiture）不同于民事损害赔偿或惩罚性赔偿，前者受\"个人实际获得\"的严格限制，后者不受此限制。\n托雷斯用一个民事罚款先例来支撑刑事没收的扩张适用，这正是在重新引入Honeycutt明确否定的\"威慑性惩罚\"逻辑到刑事没收领域。","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdc749381ff485c211d8f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000129","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000129","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdc749381ff485c211d8f","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdc749381ff485c211d8f/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qdc749381ff485c211d8f","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"qa8ed2e37a8be75a45ab8","speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-06-30T07:22:00.562Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa8ed2e37a8be75a45ab8"},{"id":"q6a923ad25bbaef460841","speaker":"nev***","date":"2026-06-30T07:22:06.532Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6a923ad25bbaef460841"},{"id":"qfd761ae363f16fcfbf5f","speaker":"nev***","date":"2026-06-30T07:22:14.632Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfd761ae363f16fcfbf5f"},{"id":"q53c06febd3a7b12db78b","speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-06-30T07:23:20.919Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q53c06febd3a7b12db78b"},{"id":"qb037b28bc45ba328f7f9","speaker":"0x_***","date":"2026-06-30T07:23:37.629Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb037b28bc45ba328f7f9"},{"id":"q84b26eb9d55a0581a8de","speaker":"nev***","date":"2026-06-30T07:23:58.439Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q84b26eb9d55a0581a8de"}],"parent_message":null}