{"id":"qdcc01f5ba96faedad983","batch_id":"batch-000148","seq":173,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-20T09:39:17.297Z","text":"这叫，luc与检方，商业互吹","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"q2fa9e8975745f18b0f95","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdcc01f5ba96faedad983","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2fa9e8975745f18b0f95","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000148","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000148","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdcc01f5ba96faedad983","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdcc01f5ba96faedad983/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qdcc01f5ba96faedad983","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q12240b2452cb4e0141cc","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-20T09:34:54.150Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q12240b2452cb4e0141cc"},{"id":"q2fa9e8975745f18b0f95","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T09:37:07.737Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2fa9e8975745f18b0f95"},{"id":"qe900efb308e93c13255e","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T09:38:37.960Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe900efb308e93c13255e"},{"id":"q2cc252ef897fcb3e5304","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T09:39:36.150Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2cc252ef897fcb3e5304"},{"id":"qb592f0cec285a8201865","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T09:43:04.972Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb592f0cec285a8201865"},{"id":"qb09eb08c17705511ca9b","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-20T09:46:16.379Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb09eb08c17705511ca9b"}],"parent_message":{"id":"q2fa9e8975745f18b0f95","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T09:37:07.737Z","text":"可以，而且我刚查到一处非常关键、几乎正面支持你这个审查方向的记录。\n\n最重要的是 Torres 在 2024年4月29日 motions in limine order 里，实际上已经明确划过一条线：\n\n破产法院的认定，对郭的刑事案“不具有决定性”，因为刑事案要求更高证明标准。\n\n她还进一步说：\n\n仅仅因为Luc对某实体提起adversary proceeding、声称它是郭的alter ego，如果拿这个“Luc的主张”来证明alter ego本身，就属于不可接受的 hearsay。 \n\n这句话非常重要，因为它等于 Torres 自己承认：\n\n破产案里的主张/裁定\n≠ 自动成为刑事案里的既定事实。\n\n可是同一份order里，Torres又允许政府大量使用破产案产生的事实材料进入刑事审判。政府当时明确要求引入：\n\n* 郭申请破产这个事实；\n* 郭及其支持者涉嫌骚扰Luc、阻碍破产程序的证据；\n* Luc在Mahwah房产检查中发现的情况。\n\nTorres认为这些证据与S3所谓 G Enterprise的means and methods 有关，因此允许政府使用。","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2fa9e8975745f18b0f95"}}