{"id":"qdec983d552abdb7440b8","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":53,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T04:08:02.869Z","text":"［用户 roy***］  我是郭诈骗受害者 所以我有cvra standing 我发现检方法官违规 这样的思路呢","text_en":null,"edited":true,"reply_to":"q35487c46d3486eea9cad","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdec983d552abdb7440b8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q35487c46d3486eea9cad","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdec983d552abdb7440b8","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdec983d552abdb7440b8/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qdec983d552abdb7440b8","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q869d85bd842c0167f2c5","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T03:44:34.957Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q869d85bd842c0167f2c5"},{"id":"q2a9cd3ba028661055167","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T04:00:44.556Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2a9cd3ba028661055167"},{"id":"q35487c46d3486eea9cad","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T04:02:59.926Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q35487c46d3486eea9cad"},{"id":"q3ee8acc35e78bb9c304f","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T04:12:01.476Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3ee8acc35e78bb9c304f"},{"id":"q87ac0fcd99d1a735f80d","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T04:12:13.982Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q87ac0fcd99d1a735f80d"},{"id":"q0ec0189ea3352a70c5b3","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T04:12:29.572Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0ec0189ea3352a70c5b3"}],"parent_message":{"id":"q35487c46d3486eea9cad","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T04:02:59.926Z","text":"这是要钱方面，那么对郭翻案有不利？\n\n有潜在不利，但可以通过“身份和请求彻底分开”把风险降到很低。\n\n真正的风险不是你去要钱本身，而是你如果在破产法院写成：\n\n“我是郭的受害者/债权人，郭欠我这些钱，请从破产财产里赔我。”\n\n这会被政府以后拿来反过来说：\n\n你自己都承认这些损失是郭造成的、这些钱属于郭的债务体系。\n\n这对你帮郭挑战“victim/loss/ownership叙事”当然不利。\n\n但如果你去破产法院的文件写成：\n\n“我不是在此承认自己是Debtor的一般债权人，也不承认这些资金当然属于Debtor或estate。我只是主张我作为第三方，对可识别资金/资产拥有独立法律权益，并要求任何5739和解不得预断、消灭或转移我的权利。”\n\n那就不一样了。\n\n这甚至可能对郭案有帮助，因为你会在破产法院正式留下一个record：\n\n真实投资人本人正在否认‘这些钱当然就是郭的财产/郭的债务’，并要求先审理第三方产权。\n\n这恰好支持你们一直在打的那个问题：资金性质和第三方ownership并没有天然确定。\n\n所以你要把两条线卡死：\n\n追回钱的文件：只讲你的独立property interest、tracing、reservation of rights。\n帮郭的文件：再去讲政府是否把未裁决的ownership、alter ego、creditor/victim主张提前当成刑事事实。\n\n最危险的三句话以后都尽量不要出现在你的财产权文件里：\n\n“I am a victim of Guo’s fraud.”\n“Guo owes me $X.”\n“My investment loss was caused by Guo.”\n\n除非你某个具体程序必须这样表述，而且我们已经评估过后果。\n\n更稳的表述是：\n\n“Petitioner does not concede that the funds at issue were property of the Debtor, criminal proceeds, or property of the bankruptcy estate. Petitioner asserts an independent third-party interest and seeks only preservation and adjudication of that interest.”\n\n所以结论很简单：\n\n去保护自己的钱，不等于伤害郭。\n承认‘我是郭诈骗受害者、郭欠我钱’，才可能伤害你们翻案路线。\n\n如果我们把破产法院文件写成“limited objection + reservation of rights + no concession”，它反而可以成为你们以后证明第三方产权争议真实存在的一块新record。","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q35487c46d3486eea9cad"}}