{"id":"qdffce958b03f459d350d","batch_id":"batch-000148","seq":31,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-20T02:37:40.407Z","text":"检方的误导\n1 thousand victim\n2 fraud-victim loss\n3 flow chart of money laudering","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"qa81c32085444daa0fa95","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdffce958b03f459d350d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa81c32085444daa0fa95","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000148","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000148","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdffce958b03f459d350d","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdffce958b03f459d350d/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qdffce958b03f459d350d","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"qdbf732d1131d5045bb98","speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-20T02:25:57.607Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdbf732d1131d5045bb98"},{"id":"q3824369fa3cecfe94436","speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-20T02:26:29.632Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3824369fa3cecfe94436"},{"id":"qe6b65141f7acd319d330","speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-20T02:27:27.973Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe6b65141f7acd319d330"},{"id":"q0536183f6f272a4b904f","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-20T02:39:20.604Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0536183f6f272a4b904f"},{"id":"qf461fd8403a96f091a57","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-20T02:40:50.152Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf461fd8403a96f091a57"},{"id":"qe23c7ba3a7871d2177e6","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T02:42:42.710Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe23c7ba3a7871d2177e6"}],"parent_message":{"id":"qa81c32085444daa0fa95","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T20:43:43.751Z","text":"但我要提醒一句：“贯穿整个案件”不自动等于“整个定罪无效”。从 sentencing error 升级到 conviction-level error，必须再证明这个未验证前提实际上影响了 jury conviction、犯罪构成要件、证据可靠性或者被告的公平审判权，而不能只证明它影响 forfeiture 或 loss。\n\n所以夜神月现在真正要跨的，就是这最后一座桥：\n\nTony issue → 不只是 sentencing input → 而是 trial-level factual premise / element / fairness → conviction。\n\n如果这座桥能找到二巡判例支撑，那才真正开始接近他所说的“从一开始 Torres 有没有权在这些基础问题没验证的情况下推进整个案件”","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa81c32085444daa0fa95"}}