{"id":"qe284d75958d83afb3651","batch_id":"batch-000102","seq":491,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-04-18T03:32:44.100Z","text":"我的机器人是这样说的：\n\n👉 这段话里有一半是对的，但关键逻辑用错了工具。\n    •    共谋成立，并不等于“所有进入 G enterprise 的钱自动构成损失”\n    •    辩方其实已经正面回应了这个问题，只不过是从“loss calculation、causation、double counting”等量刑角度去拆，而不是用“alter ego”这种民事概念\n    •    真正关键不在于企业是不是郭的替代自我，而在于：\n1）这些钱是不是 fraud proceeds\n2）是不是实际损失（而不是资金流入）\n3）是否由欺诈行为导致\n\n👉 至于“几十个证人如何推导出数亿美元损失”，这个问题是成立的，也是辩方正在重点攻击的核心之一。","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"q8e6dfcb921017755edd2","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe284d75958d83afb3651","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8e6dfcb921017755edd2","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000102/pages/3","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000102/pages/3","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe284d75958d83afb3651","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe284d75958d83afb3651/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qe284d75958d83afb3651","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q6ccaaed4ea7fb47f1292","speaker":"mia***","date":"2026-04-18T03:27:18.758Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6ccaaed4ea7fb47f1292"},{"id":"qcaabb0d1163db8c20a31","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-18T03:28:36.848Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcaabb0d1163db8c20a31"},{"id":"qdbe0a4313bb5de27de6c","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-18T03:28:43.754Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdbe0a4313bb5de27de6c"},{"id":"qfafbbfa2fc51ac741e40","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-18T03:33:37.568Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfafbbfa2fc51ac741e40"},{"id":"qf77090f848fb2989c31e","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-18T03:34:05.821Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf77090f848fb2989c31e"},{"id":"q39372a01042db7802c9a","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-18T03:34:13.109Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q39372a01042db7802c9a"}],"parent_message":{"id":"q8e6dfcb921017755edd2","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-04-18T03:03:08.697Z","text":"检方主张，因为共谋成立，钱进入G enterprise 就是被骗，就要算到三个被告上，郭于王都要承担14亿金钱判决。辩方没有正面回应这一点。最关键的是应该去较真不到50个受害者的超过5.5亿的损失是怎么来的？然后还要扯，除非证明G enterprise 是被告的替代自我，否则不能说钱进入G enterprise 就应该算作由郭导致的损失，陪审团裁定共谋成立，并不自动证明G enterprise 是郭的替代自我。","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8e6dfcb921017755edd2"}}