{"id":"qe59c53c5607ab456dae7","batch_id":"batch-000151","seq":193,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T09:05:58.623Z","text":"对，如果你这个事实前提核对无误——GTV资金一直相对独立、主要由SEC那条线处理，而且720/858的Listed Property里本来就没有GTV相关specific assets——那我前面关于“逐个检查没收清单里的GTV账户”的方向就需要纠正。\n\n858本身其实支持这个区分。Torres明确把原约13亿美元中的 $411 million GTV Private Placement 从郭的money judgment里扣掉，最后留下约 $889 million，对应法院所说的Farm Loan、G Clubs和Himalaya Exchange等犯罪所得。她还特别写明，GTV这$411m已经在SEC程序中被disgorged，因此不能再重复计入郭的money judgment。\n\n而858里那句：\n\n“This deduction does not affect the forfeiture of any of the Listed Property.”\n\n如果Listed Property本来就没有GTV-specific assets，那这句话的意思就不是“GTV账户虽然无罪仍继续没收”，而更简单：\n\n扣掉GTV的$411m，只影响money judgment数额；原来720里那些非GTV的specific property继续照常没收。\n\n这就完全说得通。\n\n所以现在Qodty刚才那个疑问也要重新校准：\n\n不是：\n\n858把GTV从8.89亿里剔除了，但政府却又把GTV账户留在没收清单，因此可能借王雁平的plea继续没收GTV。\n\n而更可能是：\n\nGTV那$411m本来走的是SEC disgorgement/Fair Fund体系；郭刑案的specific-property forfeiture清单主要是Farm/G Club/HEX/G Enterprise/money-laundering相关财产。因此858扣掉GTV后，并不存在“清单里还残留一批GTV资产没有删”的矛盾。\n\n这也意味着Robert说的：\n\n“如果于建民不能引渡，就必须找个人来背GTV，否则final forfeiture里得去掉。”\n\n如果没收清单里根本没有GTV-specific assets，那这个问题基本就建立在错误前提上了。 根本不存在一批“等着找人背才能保住”的GTV刑事没收资产。\n\n反而现在有一个更值得研究、也和你自己的退款直接相关的点：\n\n既然美国刑案858已经明确承认GTV Private Placement的$411m已经通过SEC程序处理，并因此把它从郭的money judgment中扣除，那么GTV投资人的恢复路径原则上就更明确地落在SEC Fair Fund/disgorgement体系，而不是郭刑案的remission资产池。","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"q558560fc75095135b9ad","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe59c53c5607ab456dae7","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q558560fc75095135b9ad","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000151","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000151","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe59c53c5607ab456dae7","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe59c53c5607ab456dae7/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qe59c53c5607ab456dae7","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q558560fc75095135b9ad","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-25T09:02:04.472Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q558560fc75095135b9ad"},{"id":"q791fde4d3ff4e88f8471","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T09:02:09.719Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q791fde4d3ff4e88f8471"},{"id":"qb5dc8bda42fda1497bb8","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T09:02:46.321Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb5dc8bda42fda1497bb8"},{"id":"qb11c5759cbcb80f045c3","speaker":"ken***","date":"2026-08-25T09:06:05.360Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb11c5759cbcb80f045c3"},{"id":"q58d641fd23c753b25148","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-25T09:08:41.174Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q58d641fd23c753b25148"},{"id":"q20cec6427c7be93980ce","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T09:09:35.582Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q20cec6427c7be93980ce"}],"parent_message":{"id":"q558560fc75095135b9ad","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-25T09:02:04.472Z","text":"Gtv的资金流总体上还是比较简单，没有与其它G系列项目混同，也没有与G enterprise里的其它组成部分有混同，全部在sec那里处理，没收清单里完全没有gtv相关资产。","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q558560fc75095135b9ad"}}