{"id":"qe79eb4fa49ae63919563","batch_id":"batch-000151","seq":209,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T09:37:18.003Z","text":"720：郭当时的Money Judgment确实是13亿美元\n\n2025年8月11日720写得非常明确：\n\nGovernment asserts $1,300,000,000\n\n由两部分组成：\n\n① 郭本人取得的Counts 1、2、4、7–11 proceeds；\n\n加上：\n\n② Count 3 money laundering涉及的property，郭与王在王的forfeiture money judgment范围内承担joint and several liability。\n\n然后Torres正式进入：\n\napproximately $1.3 billion Money Judgment\n\n所以这里可以确定：\n\n720 = 郭约13亿美元Money Judgment。\n\n而且720同时列了一大批 Specific Property。\n\n⸻\n\n但截图里Robert说“王是14亿，在691里政府说王和郭合并处理，所以720变成13亿”——691并不支持这个因果关系\n\n这是我认为现在最需要纠正他的地方。\n\n691说的“合并处理”，指的是：\n\n同一批Subject Properties的第三方产权petitions统一放进一个ancillary proceeding处理。\n\n它不是说：\n\n把王的money judgment + 郭的money judgment合并成一个共同总额。\n\n这两个概念完全不同。\n\n所以不能从691推出：\n\n“王14亿 → 与郭合并 → 郭720变13亿。”\n\n691没有这么说。\n\n⸻\n\n那王的“14亿”和郭的“13亿”究竟是什么关系？\n\n这个反而值得继续深挖。\n\n720自己的语言已经给出了一部分答案：\n\n郭的13亿里包含：\n\nCount 3 property involved in money laundering，\n\n并且：\n\n郭与王jointly and severally liable，但仅限于王自己的forfeiture money judgment范围。\n\n所以王的forfeiture judgment和郭的13亿确实存在重叠责任，尤其Count 3。\n\n但是：\n\n重叠责任 ≠ 两个人的金额简单相加。\n\n也不是：\n\n王14亿 + 郭13亿 = 政府可以收27亿。\n\n政府对同一犯罪财产不能靠两个被告重复recover两遍。","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe79eb4fa49ae63919563","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000151/pages/2","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000151/pages/2","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe79eb4fa49ae63919563","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe79eb4fa49ae63919563/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qe79eb4fa49ae63919563","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q0cd8abdead6987d469fa","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-25T09:26:45.185Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0cd8abdead6987d469fa"},{"id":"q7d6279833e84dd8727e6","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-25T09:28:37.306Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7d6279833e84dd8727e6"},{"id":"q35beea45d1f463a00126","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T09:36:47.645Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q35beea45d1f463a00126"},{"id":"q6b7bf2e5ee0832861e45","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-25T09:37:31.675Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6b7bf2e5ee0832861e45"},{"id":"qdf063b1d43c2a7412c0c","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T09:37:48.028Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdf063b1d43c2a7412c0c"},{"id":"qa0d12cf7149b008aed4c","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T09:38:09.066Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa0d12cf7149b008aed4c"}],"parent_message":null}