{"id":"qe900efb308e93c13255e","batch_id":"batch-000148","seq":172,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T09:38:37.960Z","text":"更关键的是，她还允许政府使用“shell company / figurehead executives / straw owners / alter ego”这一类词，只要求政府在使用前建立足够的factual predicate。\n\n所以你现在提出的审查问题可以变得非常具体：\n\nTorres嘴上设了一道防火墙：\n\n破产案的结论不能直接当刑事事实。\n\n但实际刑事案推进过程中，政府有没有通过另一种方式把同样的破产叙事事实化了？\n\n这个问题非常值得查。\n\n我已经找到至少四个节点。\n\n第一个：S3起诉书。\n\nS3一开头不是说“政府怀疑存在很多受害者”，而是直接向大陪审团陈述：\n\ndefendants conspired to defraud thousands of victims of more than approximately $1 billion.\n\n随后直接把大量实体定义成 G Enterprise，并说这些实体是被告创建、维持、控制，用于获取fraud proceeds、洗钱、为郭及家人购买资产。S3还专门把郭2022年的bankruptcy写进 “Concealment of Ownership and Control”，并直接声称这些实体实际上由郭、Je、Wang等拥有和/或控制。\n\n也就是说，在起诉阶段，“thousands of victims”“fraud proceeds”“G Enterprise ownership/control”已经作为政府的刑事事实理论完整出现。","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe900efb308e93c13255e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000148","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000148","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe900efb308e93c13255e","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe900efb308e93c13255e/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qe900efb308e93c13255e","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q057c20fa2a75e7293820","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-20T09:32:10.495Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q057c20fa2a75e7293820"},{"id":"q12240b2452cb4e0141cc","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-20T09:34:54.150Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q12240b2452cb4e0141cc"},{"id":"q2fa9e8975745f18b0f95","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T09:37:07.737Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2fa9e8975745f18b0f95"},{"id":"qdcc01f5ba96faedad983","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-20T09:39:17.297Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdcc01f5ba96faedad983"},{"id":"q2cc252ef897fcb3e5304","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T09:39:36.150Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2cc252ef897fcb3e5304"},{"id":"qb592f0cec285a8201865","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T09:43:04.972Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb592f0cec285a8201865"}],"parent_message":null}