{"id":"qeab91238eaeeecc6e04d","batch_id":"batch-000149","seq":175,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-21T20:37:05.991Z","text":"关于郭案投资人现在还能不能以“财产权利人”身份参与，简单说一下：\n\n大家首先要分清楚三种完全不同的身份：\n\n第一种：Property Claimant（第三方财产权利人）\n\n不是说“我投过钱”就自动成立。\n\n关键是你能不能证明：\n\n我投出去的这笔钱 → 能追踪到政府现在没收的某个具体账户或资产 → 我对这项具体财产仍然具有法律上的产权或优先权益。\n\n如果能做到这一点，就可能走 §853(n)第三方产权程序。\n\n通俗讲就是：\n\n政府说：“这是郭的犯罪资产，我要没收。”\n\n你说：\n\n“等一下，这里面有我的财产，你不能把我的钱也当成郭的钱一起没收。”\n\n这和说“我是诈骗受害者”完全不是一回事。\n\n⸻\n\n第二种：Victim / Remission（受害者退款）\n\n如果只能证明：\n\n“我投资了多少钱，我损失了多少钱。”\n\n但无法把自己的钱追踪到政府没收的某个具体账户或资产，那么更接近政府的 remission受害者退款程序。\n\n这条路实际上是在告诉政府：\n\n“我是郭诈骗的受害者，请从没收资产里赔我。”\n\n所以如果一个投资人根本不认可自己是郭诈骗的victim，就要非常谨慎，不能为了拿钱随便选择这个身份。","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"q6bdbaaf9c2273661aef5","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeab91238eaeeecc6e04d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6bdbaaf9c2273661aef5","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000149","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000149","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeab91238eaeeecc6e04d","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeab91238eaeeecc6e04d/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qeab91238eaeeecc6e04d","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q96fa8fd28248b2c2d6c6","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-21T19:20:51.571Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q96fa8fd28248b2c2d6c6"},{"id":"q6bdbaaf9c2273661aef5","speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-21T20:00:40.159Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6bdbaaf9c2273661aef5"},{"id":"qd29e47bfb9184693a150","speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-21T20:16:05.564Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd29e47bfb9184693a150"},{"id":"q77ca7b2ead8dbcd89b26","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-21T20:37:38.722Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q77ca7b2ead8dbcd89b26"},{"id":"q913cc2e427c6eb8a9914","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-21T20:41:25.671Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q913cc2e427c6eb8a9914"}],"parent_message":{"id":"q6bdbaaf9c2273661aef5","speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-21T20:00:40.159Z","text":"那郭案所有投资人包括自诉人都可以以property claimant的身份参与，因为都投钱了，都有相关凭证。现在还可以介入吗？我们参与会对刑事案产生什么影响？","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6bdbaaf9c2273661aef5"}}