{"id":"qebb603cd9aa9bfe791c3","batch_id":"batch-000149","seq":121,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T20:57:53.944Z","text":"这个思路作为分工方法是对的，但“把Luc破产案踢翻”要稍微降温一点，不然容易把目标设得过头。\n\n更现实的打法是：不要把“打Luc”当成一个大口号，而是拆成几个能被法院真正处理的具体问题。 比如一组专门做：\n\nLuc与刑事案资金/forfeiture的连接\n重点查 Mahwah、5739、政府和Luc什么时候开始协调、依据什么权利分资产、有没有在产权未定/forfeiture未终局时先安排资产走向。\n\n另一组专门做：\n\nalter ego / beneficial ownership基础\n把Luc声称的260多件adversaries逐项分类：哪些真的已有judgment，哪些只是allegation，哪些是default judgment，哪些是summary judgment，哪些仍在pending。\n\n再一组做：\n\n第三方财产权\n盯 §853(n)、§1963(l)、ownership、superior interest、due process，尤其看政府和Luc的和解有没有碰到本来属于第三方的权利。\n\n还有一组做：\n\n刑事案反向污染破产案\n如果26-1853以后真出现刑事判决、forfeiture、Rule 32.2或证据基础被推翻，就马上核查：Luc哪些判决、诉状、和解、资产主张曾经依赖这些刑事材料。\n\n所以群友那句：\n\n“Luc沾了刑事案的钱，就别想全身而退。”\n\n作为群里玩笑可以，但法律上最有力的表达其实是：\n\nLuc一旦把破产estate和criminal forfeiture正式绑在一起，他的相关资产主张就更容易受到刑事案后续裁判变化的影响。\n\n这才是关键。\n\n而且你们如果真分组，我建议不要两个人都重复搜同一个点。最有效的是每组只负责一条证据链，最后汇总成一张总图：\n\n刑事案认定 → forfeiture权利 → Luc/政府和解 → 破产资产归属 → 第三方权利 → 后续adversaries\n\n这样比大家一起喊“把破产案踢翻”有用得多。","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"q0670f45e863913439969","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qebb603cd9aa9bfe791c3","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0670f45e863913439969","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000149","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000149","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qebb603cd9aa9bfe791c3","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qebb603cd9aa9bfe791c3/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qebb603cd9aa9bfe791c3","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"qf0649ddd634428724b90","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-20T19:30:09.570Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf0649ddd634428724b90"},{"id":"qb7777718144d6a758b8b","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T20:27:09.527Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb7777718144d6a758b8b"},{"id":"q0670f45e863913439969","speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-08-20T20:55:22.509Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0670f45e863913439969"},{"id":"q71c51d95df28af582b45","speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-08-20T21:08:46.473Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q71c51d95df28af582b45"},{"id":"q3f42ee3f2c380a92e81b","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T21:38:01.542Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3f42ee3f2c380a92e81b"},{"id":"q29713dda849256bf08ce","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T21:39:51.961Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q29713dda849256bf08ce"}],"parent_message":{"id":"q0670f45e863913439969","speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-08-20T20:55:22.509Z","text":"個人認為上了二巡的可以分幾組，分別就一些點去深挖深入研究。\n一組兩人專門深扒LUC的皮，他沾了刑事案這邊的錢，就別想全身而溜。咱們要更有策略性地去合作及進攻。把他的破產案也給踢翻了🤭🤣","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0670f45e863913439969"}}