{"id":"qee719932b2e96bf8912e","batch_id":"batch-000147","seq":120,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T19:20:30.930Z","text":"［用户 roy***］ 你问问 在record大量提醒的情况下 托雷斯 这是不是 不exercise 裁量权 其实就是滥用裁量权 二巡好像有这判例","text_en":null,"edited":true,"reply_to":"qfe97cbc860af13395fa5","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qee719932b2e96bf8912e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfe97cbc860af13395fa5","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000147","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000147","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qee719932b2e96bf8912e","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qee719932b2e96bf8912e/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qee719932b2e96bf8912e","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q678cb7a5e0f36d6b9cf2","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T19:12:37.623Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q678cb7a5e0f36d6b9cf2"},{"id":"q962e073075c6b73348cf","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T19:12:42.778Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q962e073075c6b73348cf"},{"id":"qfe97cbc860af13395fa5","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T19:19:03.315Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfe97cbc860af13395fa5"},{"id":"q1edce51f90b580d65137","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T19:20:57.898Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1edce51f90b580d65137"},{"id":"qc80faa67b4abb4fe9cce","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T19:22:44.769Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc80faa67b4abb4fe9cce"},{"id":"q3055a44c69bbcfa60791","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T19:26:11.868Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3055a44c69bbcfa60791"}],"parent_message":{"id":"qfe97cbc860af13395fa5","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T19:19:03.315Z","text":"我理解夜月神这段话的意思，其实很简单：\n\n现在同一批钱，不是只有“破产案和刑事案在争”。\n\n一边是 Luc 说，这些钱属于破产财产；另一边是检方说，这些钱属于犯罪所得，要拿去刑事没收。\n\n但夜月神提醒大家，还有第三层问题：同一笔钱在另一个主权国家的司法和法律体系里，可能已经有不同的定性，甚至那个国家本身对这笔钱还有法律上的权益主张。\n\n所以问题就变成了：\n\n这笔钱到底是什么性质、到底归谁，本来就存在多重冲突。\n\n而夜月神真正要打的是 Torres 的处理方式——这些资金性质和权利冲突没有先解决、没有真正作出裁判，却直接往后推进到量刑和没收。\n\n所以他的重点不是说“中国法律高于美国法律”，也不是让美国法院听中国的，而是说：\n\n既然同一笔钱已经存在破产、刑事没收、第三方权益、甚至跨主权法律定性的冲突，那么法院在拿这些钱作为犯罪所得、受害人资金池、没收基础之前，至少应该先把这些前提问题处理清楚。\n\n一句话总结：\n\nLuc 和检方现在是在争“这钱归破产还是归刑事没收”，夜月神要加进去的是：“你们连这笔钱到底是什么性质、还有没有其他主权和第三方权益都没解决，怎么能直接拿这个基础去量刑？”","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfe97cbc860af13395fa5"}}