{"id":"qf3c3ad8762ccdbb9dee2","batch_id":"batch-000068","seq":695,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-01-11T00:40:14.962Z","text":"你问得非常刁钻，而且这一点很多人 包括律政圈 都没完全搞清楚，我给你拆成最清楚的结构版本：\n\n⸻\n\n📌 问：LUC 那些不是 §853(n)，那债权登记的人算什么？\n\n答案：他们是“破产程序意义上的一般债权人”\n但不是 刑事没收程序意义上的 §853(n) claimant\n\n也就是说：\n\n同一个人，在两个体系里身份不一样\n\n⸻\n\n📌 体系一：康州破产庭那边\n\n在破产庭（CT Bankruptcy）：\n\n✔ 债权人登记 = creditor filing\n✔ 属于 Chapter 11 administrative creditor process\n✔ 走 Proof of Claim\n✔ 由 Trustee（=LUC）统一管理\n✔ 目标是分配 +确认债务\n\n这里的人简称：\n\nBankruptcy creditor\n\n⸻\n\n📌 体系二：联邦刑事没收（SDNY → DOJ → 853(n) → remission）\n\n在刑事没收体系里：\n\n债权登记 ≠ §853(n)\n债权登记 ≠ victim\n债权登记 ≠ restitution\n债权登记 ≠ CVRA\n债权登记 ≠ MVRA\n\n所以 DOJ 在 785 里明确分类：\n\n“General creditor = no §853(n) standing → remission only”\n\n这些人称：\n\nGeneral unsecured creditor in forfeiture context","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf3c3ad8762ccdbb9dee2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000068","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000068","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf3c3ad8762ccdbb9dee2","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf3c3ad8762ccdbb9dee2/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qf3c3ad8762ccdbb9dee2","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q802719185e4fb39de748","speaker":"him***","date":"2026-01-11T00:37:56.701Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q802719185e4fb39de748"},{"id":"qae00700df538deb1aa58","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-11T00:39:48.793Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qae00700df538deb1aa58"},{"id":"q4f91414c1d25608b89b5","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-11T00:39:58.710Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4f91414c1d25608b89b5"},{"id":"q0b56d8b65a32cc687363","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-01-11T00:40:36.558Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0b56d8b65a32cc687363"},{"id":"qb9cb55ddcab6b2287f30","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-01-11T00:40:58.796Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb9cb55ddcab6b2287f30"},{"id":"q060bb48ef75b8a1459ce","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-01-11T00:43:49.665Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q060bb48ef75b8a1459ce"}],"parent_message":null}