# Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok): community discussion 023

Community discussion, batch 023 (Aug 2, 2025 – Aug 4, 2025), 1,000 messages, on the Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok) case. Participants discussed post-conviction relief strategies in case 1:23-cr-00118-AT, debating District Attorney’s Office v. Osborne and the post-conviction applicability of the Brady rule. Members examined Southern District of New York orders ECF No. 715, 718, and 719, which postponed sentencing to Jan 20, 2026. Severe disagreements emerged over devastating financial losses in Himalaya Coin and G-series investments, with participants disputing whether alliance leaders mismanaged funds or whether contributors bore personal risk.

Firsthand participant accounts and investment experiences, preserved with dates, sources and reply context.

English reading guide and paraphrases; Chinese source messages remain authoritative.

## Discussing Case Evidence and Creditor Identity Disputes Involving Anti-Guo Groups

Participants discuss creditor identities and potential procedural unfairness involving opposition factions.

- rui***, Aug 2, 2025: rui*** affirms the ongoing discussion point regarding case proceedings. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q03d1c0ff28e94fcda24f)
- rui***, Aug 2, 2025: rui*** posits a scenario where the creditors consist entirely of the opposition strike team. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc45257f26fbd52a8c5ec)
- rui***, Aug 2, 2025: rui*** argues that under such circumstances there might not even be an opportunity to challenge procedural injustice. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q262147540e9bb5b1a461)
## Following Online Posts and Motions to Explore Creditor Filings and Court Strategy

Participants examine creditor motions mentioned in social media posts and discuss litigation filings.

- rui***, Aug 2, 2025: rui*** notes a post stating that Luc's creditor motion tagged the Southern District of New York court. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qed31a85bbf0e5355d83c)
- rui***, Aug 2, 2025: rui*** tells another participant to stop rambling about tangential matters. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8e83bc0e7a33dae8876b)
- rui***, Aug 2, 2025: rui*** contends that consequences depend on whether motions are submitted and forfeiture orders are issued. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1ec627140a115bd165e3)
## Debating the Post-Conviction Applicability of the Brady Rule Using Judicial Precedent

Participants debate whether prosecutors retain Brady disclosure obligations after conviction under judicial precedent.

- pz0***, Aug 2, 2025: pz0*** cites District Attorney’s Office for Third Judicial Dist. v. Osborne, 557 U.S. 52 (U.S. 2009) to argue that prosecutors no longer bear Brady obligations post-conviction. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf3360aab26543b1696a2)
- ntp***, Aug 2, 2025: ntp*** contends that if the defense fails to raise procedural injustice, it is deemed to have forfeited its rights. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0b8e680e57aba83d6f4b)
- pz0***, Aug 2, 2025: pz0*** argues that challenging prosecutors under Brady requires proving they suppressed favorable evidence known prior to conviction. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3eb11e35bb1871942f42)
## Exploring Procedural Controversies Regarding the Prosecution and Bankruptcy Motions

Participants discuss alleged prosecutorial procedural violations and legal vulnerabilities.

- ntp***, Aug 2, 2025: ntp*** argues that ignoring filings plants the seeds of prosecutorial Brady violations. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q23caca66698d3f174acd)
- him***, Aug 2, 2025: him*** asserts that the prosecution's position has already been heavily riddled with weaknesses. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5706d5e54072244d2e6b)
- him***, Aug 2, 2025: him*** contends that facing a few additional legal challenges will make no difference to the prosecution. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0fd675af958004e2ebdc)
## Interpreting SDNY Order 719 on Postponed Sentencing and Victim Submission Deadlines

Participants analyze SDNY Order 719 extending sentencing deadlines and reflect on high legal defense expenses.

- gun***, Aug 2, 2025: gun*** summarizes SDNY Order 719 in case 1:23-cr-00118-AT granting a sentencing extension to Jan 20, 2026, and setting objection and victim filing schedules. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfd41465fecf902f876fd)
- gun***, Aug 2, 2025: gun*** argues that proven procedural unfairness or Brady violations could support a motion to dismiss or cause retrial delays. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc3d7acd1a4f6e226ba99)
- chu***, Aug 2, 2025: chu*** describes hourly attorney fees at Paul Hastings as greatly exceeding a monthly salary. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qde4aca69acae5320db3c)
## Exchanging Experiences Regarding Himalaya Coin Speculation and Trapped Funds

Participants recount financial entrapment in Himalaya Coin and debate the sacrifices made for the movement.

- xin***, Aug 3, 2025: xin*** argues mockingly that by the time Guo is released, managers will have spent all the money. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaa5d4010bc066127851b)
- xin***, Aug 3, 2025: xin*** contends that movement followers must inevitably pay a personal price. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q309847686d69e02d3ec1)
- she***, Aug 3, 2025: she*** asserts that monetary losses do not matter as long as the Chinese Communist Party is eliminated. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qae013a786ed06a45604c)
## Debating Investment Liquidation Timing, Financial Exploitation, and Loss Recovery

Participants dispute whether investments should have been cashed out early or maintained for group stability.

- ntp***, Aug 3, 2025: ntp*** argues that investments should only have been liquidated after eventual success to protect stability. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q31097e95db111d533dc3)
- xin***, Aug 3, 2025: xin*** disputes this assertion by contending that delaying liquidation merely benefited alliance leaders' lavish spending. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3fc833b822d184a2af2d)
- chu***, Aug 3, 2025: chu*** describes the investment sums discussed by others as rivaling a lifetime of working wages. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8c121e07c864377b6a7d)
## Disputing Profit Motives, Broken Promises, and the Authenticity of Statements

Participants argue over whether organizers promised guaranteed profits and how to evaluate promotional claims.

- ntp***, Aug 3, 2025: ntp*** contends that leaders never promised instant wealth and frequently warned that investments carried risks. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8b210c57fea81d031346)
- zci***, Aug 3, 2025: zci*** disputes this claim by arguing that such rhetoric represents typical alliance spin. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbc898a5df7f09a493ee8)
- ntp***, Aug 3, 2025: ntp*** argues that labeling tokens as scams stems from listening to the alliance rather than assessing individual sales. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfee3cf342ca3c9ff8b65)
## Discussing Verdict Baselines, Appeal Prospects, and Principal Recovery

Participants discuss community expectations surrounding the sentencing date and the prospects of appeal.

- zci***, Aug 3, 2025: zci*** states uncertainty regarding the community's true bottom line or expectations. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2cb7e9970f8996975831)
- xin***, Aug 3, 2025: xin*** contends that expecting victory after an adverse conviction would be foolish. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q34dc53a947675e8be539)
- zci***, Aug 3, 2025: zci*** notes that an appeal remains scheduled after Jan 20, 2026, assuming no further delays occur. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7a88788474e43b381851)
## Discussing Strategies and Procedural Impacts of Submitting Brady Material

Participants discuss external commentators and cues signaling legal developments in the case.

- rui***, Aug 4, 2025: rui*** remarks humorously that commentator Huang Hebian provided timely assistance. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8efdc8ee19a453202592)
- xin***, Aug 4, 2025: xin*** contends that an online critic deleting videos would be the true indicator of Guo's release. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc2b52c10f09fe16d24dd)
- hon***, Aug 4, 2025: hon*** asks the group what recent event occurred. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4cf9892e458a09ad4202)
## Disputing Defense Loyalty, Due Process Violations, and Appellate Paths

Participants debate the implications if defense counsel itself is compromised and consider whether solutions exist.

- xin***, Aug 4, 2025: xin*** argues that if the defense team is also an adversary, the situation becomes insoluble. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe619202242e0b7734348)
- rui***, Aug 4, 2025: rui*** agrees with the premise of the concern. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q72fe839fd5e0c633003b)
- rui***, Aug 4, 2025: rui*** contends that the dilemma is not entirely without a solution. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1ce8f827a34b84158ac0)
## Discussing Card and G-Series Losses, Capital Recovery, and Management Accountability

Participants evaluate the long-term viability of investment cards and express skepticism over recovering financial losses.

- xin***, Aug 4, 2025: xin*** remarks sarcastically that fraudulent assets have remained surprisingly resilient without breaking issue prices. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q056e1f5e9cfabae7b4fe)
- zci***, Aug 4, 2025: zci*** questions whether membership cards could ever realistically appreciate given the mindset of true believers. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qba140611b6507b6ae26c)
- xin***, Aug 4, 2025: xin*** recounts being in their early thirties and cynically hopes to attain a decent life by age sixty. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc7c86b81385440789c22)