# Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok): community discussion 031

Community discussion, batch 031 (Aug 29, 2025 – Sep 3, 2025), 1,000 messages, on the Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok) case. Discussions focus on asset recovery pathways and court procedural maneuvers. Participants dispute how to intervene, with some members advocating pro se petitions under 21 U.S.C. § 853(n) and citing Fafalios to assert procedural due process rights over forfeited property. Others explore seeking restitution as victims under the CVRA or submitting a Petition for Remission, which draws fierce opposition. Members also debate submission channels for SDNY court motions, bankruptcy court creditor registrations, and contributors' legal standing.

Firsthand participant accounts and investment experiences, preserved with dates, sources and reply context.

English reading guide and paraphrases; Chinese source messages remain authoritative.

## Debating Asset Recovery Pathways: Pros and Cons of Pro Se Petitions Versus Petitions for Remission

Participants debate the advantages and drawbacks of pursuing pro se claims versus petitions for remission to recover forfeited assets.

- ntp***, Sep 2, 2025: ntp*** criticizes an online commentator for allegedly misleading individuals into claiming victim status. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5fb36f6be715e6d02152)
- ntp***, Sep 2, 2025: ntp*** shares an external post concerning disputes over victim classification and claims. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa73317a861c4ff66516d)
- ntp***, Sep 2, 2025: ntp*** comments on an escalating online confrontation involving Tang Ping. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2038fb0a60147b2f357b)
## Invoking Fafalios to Assert § 853(n) Due Process Protections and Address Undocketed Motions

Members examine United States v. Fafalios to argue for third-party due process rights under 21 U.S.C. § 853(n) and consider paper filing options.

- reb***, Aug 31, 2025: reb*** outlines United States v. Fafalios, contending that 21 U.S.C. § 853(n) provides third parties independent due process rights to contest forfeiture rather than being bound by a defendant's plea. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q137ae068b1eaf90975f7)
- rui***, Aug 31, 2025: rui*** asks reb*** to identify the specific document referenced in the discussion. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1ed0c0a0d0461478a16f)
- rui***, Aug 31, 2025: rui*** states an intention to submit paper copies when eventually filing a motion. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa64e01b5e201cf7c86f2)
## Debating Legal Standing for Contributors: Third-Party Versus Amicus Curiae Status

Participants evaluate whether non-holding contributors should intervene as interested third parties or as amicus curiae.

- sar***, Aug 30, 2025: sar*** proposes submitting a filing centered on judicial fairness and procedural justice as a stakeholder despite lacking HID holdings. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qba143b3ea90cfb100747)
- rui***, Aug 30, 2025: rui*** endorses sar***'s proposed drafting perspective. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q06aac8fa02e1a4944742)
- rui***, Aug 30, 2025: rui*** suggests that sar***'s proposed submission resembles an amicus curiae filing rather than a third-party claim. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc6f965e80f286104c087)
## Inquiries and Troubleshooting Regarding Pro Se Court Submissions and Potential Email Blocking

Members investigate contact details and transmission issues when attempting to email pro se motions to the court.

- ntp***, Aug 30, 2025: ntp*** asks where the SDNY pro se court filing email address was found. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qca56f82682ce33dbd62b)
- ntp***, Aug 30, 2025: ntp*** asks sar*** whether a particular telephone number was used to reach the court. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q32c92674c990fc1a0a7f)
- ntp***, Aug 30, 2025: ntp*** shares a link discussing court communications and filing procedures. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb9f66fa39151374ae9ff)
## Disagreements Over Third-Party Strategies for Intervening as Victims or Pro Se Claimants

Members dispute whether to intervene as crime victims or file pro se claims under 21 U.S.C. § 853(n) to challenge asset forfeiture.

- sar***, Sep 3, 2025: sar*** compiles chat notes arguing that farm contributors should file pro se petitions against improper claims rather than victim claims under the CVRA, while discussing court orders. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7c68e074f47d76884d0a)
- sar***, Sep 3, 2025: sar*** contends that individuals should submit personal statements as victims without retaining disputed counsel. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q562cb4d10f0ed959868e)
- sar***, Sep 3, 2025: sar*** notes that a post detailing these intervention strategies accumulated more than 5,000 views in two days. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q760e8cd90418a66ae0d9)
## Exploring Himalaya Exchange HDO Reserves, White Paper Terms, and Claiming Property Rights Under CVRA or § 853(n)

Participants search for Himalaya Exchange white paper documentation to support potential property claims under the CVRA or 21 U.S.C. § 853(n).

- goh***, Sep 3, 2025: goh*** requests assistance in locating the Himalaya Exchange white paper. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0969001a5225e0bdd38f)
- ntp***, Sep 3, 2025: ntp*** observes that finding the document is difficult because the platform website is offline. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9cbac1ffdf2a89e3771a)
- goh***, Sep 3, 2025: goh*** asks whether any community members have preserved a backup copy of the white paper. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q54b78a46569026e68e51)
## Reviewing Document 718 Exhibits on Attorney Substitution Hearings and Non-Party Submissions

Members compare hearing transcripts in Document 718-1 regarding the attorney substitution hearing with versions circulated online.

- chu***, Sep 3, 2025: chu*** notes discrepancies between the attorney substitution transcript in Document 718-1 and versions circulated by the alliance, asking if the prosecution's exhibit is more comprehensive. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0bb487edb837374ab95e)
- rui***, Sep 3, 2025: rui*** asks whether chu*** is referring to transcripts published on the NFSC site. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qca9f9029f3981716d9d0)
- chu***, Sep 3, 2025: chu*** confirms that the reference points to the NFSC website. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc84e3c46a88f4764ee2a)
## Lenders and Investors Discuss Farm Transfer Recovery, Court Claim Hurdles, and Pro Se Feasibility

Participants recount financial distress and frustration over court fees and filing obstacles when attempting to recover transferred funds.

- hon***, Sep 1, 2025: hon*** expresses anger that submitting Document 388 requires paying extra court fees. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc2fe6d52c6c0708a4274)
- chu***, Sep 1, 2025: chu*** shares an external link regarding asset recovery efforts. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa99c0aaa664f995ee334)
- hon***, Sep 2, 2025: hon*** recounts participants' hardships and limited legal expertise, noting that court fees cause impoverished claimants to abandon recovery efforts. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q93a8b0b5b97d3312a870)
## Contentious Confrontations Over Indictment Content, Victim Definitions, and Project Allegations

Members engage in personal arguments over whether their names appear on creditor registration lists.

- rim***, Sep 1, 2025: rim*** claims that rui***'s name is listed on the creditor registry. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa8d07fe9c0269ce0d050)
- rui***, Sep 1, 2025: rui*** denies that their name is present on the creditor list. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeb0fe7c47ebe83b8a964)
- rui***, Sep 1, 2025: rui*** states that they previously submitted a creditor form using provocative pseudonyms. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q39156a4f90d49de47166)
## Mutual Accusations Regarding Bankruptcy Creditor Registration, RICO Allegations, and Court Filing Authenticity

Participants trade insults while debating alleged flaws in the case and comprehension of court proceedings.

- rim***, Sep 1, 2025: rim*** asserts that there are numerous loopholes in the case. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6814647f8f13d2077f84)
- rim***, Sep 1, 2025: rim*** insults rui***, alleging that rui*** completely fails to understand the court filings. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeabf715b59b18498aa9c)
- rui***, Sep 1, 2025: rui*** insults rim*** in response regarding large financial expenditures. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeca4bef12f9f4aab0e2e)