# Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok): community discussion 043 Community discussion, batch 043 (Sep 26, 2025 – Sep 30, 2025), 1,000 messages, on the Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok) case. Participants engaged in sharp debates over case proceedings, victim status, and judicial advocacy strategies. Some advocated submitting motions alleging fraud on the court directly to the district court or seeking mandamus relief from the Second Circuit if filings remain unposted. Conversely, others questioned the legal standing, procedural validity, and efficacy of third-party intervention in criminal proceedings. Meanwhile, discussions reflected ongoing disputes regarding defense counsel performance, evidentiary sources, motives, and overall case trajectory. Firsthand participant accounts and investment experiences, preserved with dates, sources and reply context. English reading guide and paraphrases; Chinese source messages remain authoritative. ## Exploring Second Circuit Complaints, Victim Status, and Fraud Grievance Strategies Participants debate complaining to the Second Circuit and filing motions on alleged fraud while positioning themselves as victims. - zha***, Sep 26, 2025: zha*** urges early email complaints to the Second Circuit to apply pressure on the Southern District by leveraging judicial mechanisms. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q72a39b2e3b67c9eed901) - ntp***, Sep 26, 2025: ntp*** states that the prosecution's Brady submission was sent out and notes difficulty in finding a logical way to list all alleged alliance frauds. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0f3d2c7791fbe6588742) ## Checking PACER Docket Updates and Analyzing Unposted Filings Participants discuss checking the PACER system for document updates and react to the absence of new court filings. - rui***, Sep 27, 2025: rui*** asks group members with PACER access whether they noticed that no documents were filed that day. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q17c782703a02c793a1ff) - rui***, Sep 27, 2025: rui*** acknowledges the response regarding the PACER docket status. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd9a22bf612f68e878e31) ## Discussing Victim Motion Filings, Service Copies, and Member Signatures Participants discuss drafting and circulating Chinese and English versions of victim motions. - rui***, Sep 28, 2025: rui*** shares what they characterize as the most formidable victim motion in Chinese. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q70a505b3ebbab8bde9c2) - rui***, Sep 28, 2025: rui*** shares the English version of the victim motion. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2f0e031a7eb49e91c32f) ## Examining Courtroom Pressure Tactics, Procedural Leverage, and Next Steps Participants discuss psychological tactics against the court and the role of artificial intelligence in drafting motions. - rui***, Sep 28, 2025: rui*** contends that their filings will exert severe psychological pressure on opposing parties ahead of sentencing. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb6dcc39f9d18dda875f0) - xin***, Sep 28, 2025: xin*** questions whether artificial intelligence is truly capable of producing such powerful legal work. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdd6cb05b7e183fcd5e63) ## Addressing Unposted Filings, the Fourteen-Day Window, and Second Circuit Mandamus Strategies Participants confer on whether the court will upload submitted materials to the docket. - zha***, Sep 28, 2025: zha*** predicts that court authorities will not allow the filing to be made public or uploaded to the docket. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q74979e64c819e0d68f32) - rui***, Sep 28, 2025: rui*** agrees that the court will certainly avoid uploading the document. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q26be6efc8c5f91da262b) ## Disputes Over Advocacy Paths: Confrontational Court Pressure Versus Compliant Petitioning Participants dispute whether to confront the judge directly or petition the court through standard judicial processes. - an7***, Sep 30, 2025: an7*** criticizes confrontational tactics as misguided grandstanding and argues against pressuring the judge or urging others to cite filing 733. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q16de93aae84b37b30a7e) - ntp***, Sep 30, 2025: ntp*** contends that during forfeiture enforcement, the judge should be alerted that the prosecution and Luc are allegedly continuing to conspire and defraud the court. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe45bbd33e3c8344e4bf4) ## Debate Over Victim Classification, Motion Validity, and Judicial Discretion Participants argue over voluntary victim declarations, citing docket 733, and disqualifying attorneys and judges. - an7***, Sep 30, 2025: an7*** accuses rui*** of constantly badgering members to declare themselves victims and cite filing 733 for disruptive purposes. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q91c88fb3a928a23ad5e6) - rui***, Sep 30, 2025: rui*** asserts an intention to seek the mutual disqualification and removal of both the judge and the attorneys. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q55980d47ef74be8c09a2) ## Disputes Over Defense Counsel Performance, Representation Authority, and Defense Tactics Participants dispute the performance and loyalty of defense attorney Geyer in representing clients and investor interests. - an7***, Sep 30, 2025: an7*** argues that Geyer faithfully represents the client by citing filings 478, 612, 643-1, 676, and 717, and contends he aims to restore exchange operations or return property unlawfully forfeited by the government. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3f3df5cfc667cc4ea688) - rui***, Sep 30, 2025: rui*** retorts by asking whose motion failed to attack Geyer. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q225b1382c129c44e3d7d) ## Discussing Third-Party Standing to Allege Malpractice, Judicial Dereliction, and Scrutiny Limits Participants debate whether defense attorneys have any legal duty toward third parties or can be accused of dereliction. - him***, Sep 30, 2025: him*** argues that defense counsel owes duties solely to the defense rather than third parties, who should retain their own lawyers. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6c40a746de3faecd905f) - rui***, Sep 30, 2025: rui*** contends that an attorney commits malpractice if they ignore third-party notices concerning fraud on the court. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q117c837a1bd00d5c049d) ## Analyzing Victim Standing and Legal Interest in Filing Fraud-on-the-Court Motions Participants discuss whether prospective filers possess the requisite legal standing for the judge to consider their motions. - ntp***, Sep 30, 2025: ntp*** raises the question of whether the filer possesses standing and whether the judge can disregard the submission if standing is lacking. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q097d9a0dce6868185e8a) - rui***, Sep 30, 2025: rui*** insists that they undeniably possess the proper legal standing. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7347579e5dd7754a6743) ## Examining Counsel's Legal Obligations and Boundaries of Third-Party Intervention Participants deliberate the necessity of legal standing and personal relevance when intervening in criminal litigation. - him***, Sep 30, 2025: him*** maintains that while raising issues is possible, defense counsel has no connection to or obligation toward third parties. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf90e1ef71cdff1aebe78) - him***, Sep 30, 2025: him*** asserts that any submission requires direct personal standing, without which an individual has no right to file. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbe96a864b39efbb5f07f)