# Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok): community discussion 046

Community discussion, batch 046 (Oct 8, 2025 – Oct 13, 2025), 1,000 messages, on the Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok) case. Discussions centered on criminal trial proceedings, victim definitions, and pro se legal avenues. Participants debated the feasibility of third-party motions under § 853(n) and Rule 21 or Rule 23, filing deadlines, and equitable tolling grounds. Disagreements arose over court submission channels, Pro Se intake duties, docket suppression, and conflicts between bankruptcy proceedings, SEC civil actions, and criminal forfeiture. Members also disputed strategies involving Second Circuit misconduct complaints and external legal counsel.

Firsthand participant accounts and investment experiences, preserved with dates, sources and reply context.

English reading guide and paraphrases; Chinese source messages remain authoritative.

## Debate on Alliance Nature, Supporter Statements, and Efficacy of Case Intervention

Participants dispute whether submitting supporter statements and intervening in the case is effective or futile.

- rui***, Oct 8, 2025: rui*** contends that taking such action is completely useless. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9d9aadce1bba5ed4d866)
- goh***, Oct 8, 2025: goh*** disputes this skepticism by questioning why the Alliance would fear anything if the actions were truly useless. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4554a7f14bd16d1e1993)
- goh***, Oct 8, 2025: goh*** argues that observing the opposition's reactions proves that these measures are highly crucial. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa4950404e149b6199751)
## Mailing Letters, Pro Se Filings, and Attempts to Seek Judicial Recusal

Participants discuss attempts to mail pro se materials to the court and recount prior experiences with judicial correspondence.

- sar***, Oct 8, 2025: sar*** describes consulting an AI chatbot that advised against printing out the entire fifty-page pro se filing along with its attachments. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q65dcb4113df3af221b1c)
- ntp***, Oct 8, 2025: ntp*** recalls that a prior letter-writing campaign prompted Judge Torres to state in court filings that she felt harassed. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3c685ae589010e2ca066)
- rui***, Oct 8, 2025: rui*** shares an external link to a social media post discussing the matter. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qacf7262b9abcfb131d19)
## Discussion on Pro Se Motion Formats, Retaining Counsel, and Court System Obstacles

Participants discuss signature requirements for pro se motions and whether veteran members intend to participate.

- ntp***, Oct 8, 2025: ntp*** asks wen*** if anyone from the veteran member group wants to participate. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7e40fdaecaa63588a460)
- ntp***, Oct 8, 2025: ntp*** inquires whether physical paper motions must be signed by hand or if digital signatures on PDFs are acceptable. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4c9cc755cf321a593171)
- reb***, Oct 8, 2025: reb*** explains that any printed motion must bear a handwritten signature. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q56d9edda0ec8e4319261)
## Distinguishing Judicial Complaints from Mandamus and Assessing Pressure on the Circuit Court

Participants explain legal distinctions between misconduct complaints and mandamus petitions while assessing joint complaint strategies.

- reb***, Oct 8, 2025: reb*** details the procedural distinction between misconduct complaints under 28 U.S.C. §§ 351–364 and writs of mandamus under 28 U.S.C. § 1651, citing In re Complaint of Judicial Misconduct, 858 F.2d 331 (D.C. Cir. 1988) to explain how collective complaints create systemic pressure. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q997e35c1f4547848c8b3)
- reb***, Oct 8, 2025: reb*** contends that dozens of complaints sent simultaneously to the Second Circuit and the Southern District of New York would exert meaningful pressure at nominal postal expense. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd2cc8ea330379e1a53cc)
## Impact of Bankruptcy Creditor Registration and G-TV Ruling on Overturning the Case

Participants analyze creditor registration filings and argue that the G-TV acquittal challenges the prosecution's victim theory.

- wen***, Oct 8, 2025: wen*** contends that prosecutors based their victim figures on 1,600 creditors claiming 32 billion dollars, noting Trustee Luc reported this registration to prosecutors in Docket No. 1191. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q819762ca9c82b771ee47)
- wen***, Oct 8, 2025: wen*** argues that the acquittal of G-TV invalidates creditor claims based on GTV investments and provides key grounds to overturn the victim count. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8ce98e5b6e93e002fccf)
- wen***, Oct 8, 2025: wen*** argues that alleged offenses like farm loan programs were committed by others, framing the arrest as procedural false arrest. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q03b57b257a0bb2e7316f)
## Debate on Veteran Investor Mindsets, Creditor Status, and Relief Communications

Participants debate the financial motivations of veteran investors and their hopes regarding the criminal outcome.

- ntp***, Oct 8, 2025: ntp*** claims that veteran investors are motivated only by financial recovery and take investment losses in stride, unlike grassroots participants who have spiritual goals. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q19be8bfae45075f33965)
- him***, Oct 8, 2025: him*** disputes this claim by arguing that veteran investors would make far more money if the case were overturned. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe0b581322d9c3cdf4462)
- him***, Oct 8, 2025: him*** speculates that some investors may simply want the sentencing finished quickly so the group can disband. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4ac307c971c20613d712)
## Controversy over Mailing Addresses and Departmental Duties for Pro Se Filings

Participants debate whether pro se motions should be sent to the Clerk's Office, the Pro Se intake unit, or judicial chambers.

- rod***, Oct 8, 2025: rod*** states that filings share the court's address but must specify Courtroom 15 addressed directly to Judge Torres. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2b23756355a1ee394c6d)
- rod***, Oct 8, 2025: rod*** explains that the Clerk's Office, Pro Se intake, and the judge share the same physical address with different room numbers. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6b97dc675298872d1449)
- him***, Oct 8, 2025: him*** questions how senders can confirm receipt or processing if the court no longer uploads pro se filings. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q76d7957b6070d54ca7d6)
## Court Docketing Policies, Paper versus Email Submission Rules, and Appeals

Participants discuss reports that pro se filings are not being uploaded to the docket and examine the consequences for appeals.

- him***, Oct 8, 2025: him*** recounts being told by the criminal intake division that pro se filings are no longer docketed due to privacy concerns. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb6bc9563ee6f724a1f66)
- him***, Oct 8, 2025: him*** describes consulting an AI bot which stated that unuploaded motions leave no official docket record for appellate review. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q18cd667c8b809b22666f)
- him***, Oct 8, 2025: him*** asks whether anyone asked court personnel how unuploaded mailed documents would eventually be addressed. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q289ee6a24c6a5feaefb7)
## Legal Deliberations on the § 853(n) Thirty-Day Deadline and Equitable Tolling

Participants explore grounds for requesting equitable tolling on the 30-day deadline for third-party petitions under § 853(n).

- reb***, Oct 9, 2025: reb*** argues that court docketing delays provide legal grounds to seek an equitable tolling extension under § 853(n) for an additional thirty days. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8f26ec221d6af679605e)
- chu***, Oct 9, 2025: chu*** contends that requesting a one-month extension for third-party petitions is entirely reasonable given court-related processing delays. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q36bac8108f87d61a8704)
- ntp***, Oct 9, 2025: ntp*** questions whether the applicable deadline is sixty days rather than thirty days. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf8c252f3e7c599fb92cc)
## Debate on Overturning the Case via New York Attorney General Complaints and RICO Claims

A participant argues that filing complaints with the New York Attorney General regarding RICO allegations and Brady material could overturn the prosecution.

- wei***, Oct 11, 2025: wei*** contends that complaints to the New York Attorney General regarding Rule of Law entities cited in Docket No. 716 and undisclosed Brady material represent a key breakthrough. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4270566a3f0aebf26947)
- wei***, Oct 11, 2025: wei*** asserts that they entered the discussion specifically to inform the group of this opportunity. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbb140aa803fba8b359db)
- wei***, Oct 11, 2025: wei*** argues that evidence of political dealings involving Donald Trump in the case records provides the critical basis for overturning the verdict. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q601ca5800cd021a3bc38)
## Debate on Bankruptcy Restitution versus Criminal Forfeiture and Responses by Associated Entities

Participants discuss financial transactions involving Steve Bannon and the Rule of Law Foundation amid bankruptcy and criminal forfeiture proceedings.

- wei***, Oct 11, 2025: wei*** asserts that one million dollars used by Steve Bannon was provided by Yping Wang and likely disbursed by the Rule of Law Foundation. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa0dcbc853681a9c69bb7)
- hah***, Oct 11, 2025: hah*** sends a message that contains no text. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1b456335465eb9bebc4b)
- hah***, Oct 11, 2025: hah*** posts an additional message without textual content. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8e64c6320a4385fe5178)
## Litigation Strategies and Motion Feasibility under Rule 21 and Rule 23

Participants discuss proposed procedural motion tactics under Rule 21 and Rule 23 to challenge the verdict.

- ntp***, Oct 13, 2025: ntp*** recounts finding it strange that someone was summoned back on a prior occasion. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeb4dddf4c397688f74ff)
- rui***, Oct 13, 2025: rui*** describes being inspired by another participant to adopt a Rule 21 motion strategy to assert Guo's innocence. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2dd6b98eeff9f7c9cf3f)
- rui***, Oct 13, 2025: rui*** argues that although the Rule 21 approach might seem unreasonable, it is actually brilliant. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaa8050f65d802ac2c6b3)