# Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok): community discussion 047

Community discussion, batch 047 (Oct 13, 2025 – Oct 17, 2025), 1,000 messages, on the Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok) case. Discussions centered on legal proceedings, rights-advocacy strategies, and internal disagreements concerning Guo's case. Participants debated seeking a writ of mandamus from the Second Circuit Court of Appeals versus participating in 21 U.S.C. § 853(n) criminal forfeiture, weighing collective against individual CVRA petitions. Debates also addressed district court motions, bankruptcy trustee Luc's legal standing, electronic signature authenticity, retaining counsel, and Farm Alliance accountability, alongside philosophical analogies to the television series Tian Dao.

Firsthand participant accounts and investment experiences, preserved with dates, sources and reply context.

English reading guide and paraphrases; Chinese source messages remain authoritative.

## Exploring Mandamus Petition Strategies in the Second Circuit

Participants discuss petitioning the Second Circuit for a writ of mandamus to compel district court action and evaluate strategic approaches.

- ntp***, Oct 15, 2025: ntp*** suggests applying for in forma pauperis status to enable more participants to join the appeal. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1787ee9388465687898c)
- ntp***, Oct 15, 2025: ntp*** contends that third-party victims in United States v. Ho Wan Kwok, 1:23-cr-00118 (AT) alleging denied docketing or CVRA rights can legally and impactfully file a joint pro se mandamus petition in the Second Circuit under Fed. R. App. P. 21(a)(1). [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q803b36aeccce3242564a)
- chu***, Oct 15, 2025: chu*** notes that the Second Circuit would return the mandamus petition. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2b6f3d56d2b5f32250a4)
## 21 U.S.C. § 853(n) Criminal Forfeiture Procedures and Deadlines for Opposing Forfeiture Orders

Participants analyze statutory timelines under 21 U.S.C. § 853(n) and the window for third parties to oppose final forfeiture orders.

- chu***, Oct 14, 2025: chu*** explains that under 21 U.S.C. § 853(n) and Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 32.2, third-party victims must file petitions within a 60-day notice window following a preliminary forfeiture order before the government seeks a final order. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdbd9da213d08a6649fe6)
- chu***, Oct 14, 2025: chu*** emphasizes that petitions opposing a final forfeiture order must be submitted in advance rather than waiting until the 60-day period expires. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc33ee1e8ca78df20c033)
- chu***, Oct 16, 2025: chu*** warns that roughly ten days remain in the preliminary forfeiture period before the government moves for a final order, contending that this window is the last lawful opportunity for victims to intervene. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf5fb7b8681de737c1ba2)
## Debate on Bankruptcy Filing Electronic Signatures and DocuSign Validity

Participants dispute whether initial bankruptcy documents were forged and challenge each other's motives regarding investment withdrawals.

- wei***, Oct 14, 2025: wei*** contends that bankruptcy court filings were fraudulent from the start because Chapter 7 personal bankruptcy does not involve creditor registration, suspecting infiltration by farm alliance spies. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9a77a1015d521c092357)
- rui***, Oct 14, 2025: rui*** dismissively asks whether the individual described is an idiot. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q11dd64bd637747ef9c48)
- wei***, Oct 14, 2025: wei*** accuses rui*** of feigning comprehension while focusing solely on procedural flaws to persuade peers to surrender investments and future influence. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q032f2e7434f588114a3d)
## Disagreements over Bankruptcy Trustee Luc's Legal Standing and Prosecutorial Responsibility

Participants dispute bankruptcy trustee Luc's legal standing in the criminal case and review pertinent docket filings.

- wen***, Oct 16, 2025: wen*** contends that trustee Luc lacks standing in the criminal proceeding under court order 528, citing ECF 751, ECF 750, and ECF 724 to argue that only bona fide third-party investors have standing under 21 U.S.C. § 853(n). [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb82aae291277e90c93e9)
- wen***, Oct 15, 2025: wen*** argues that Luc is waiting for third-party petitions and sentencing to conclude, urging others to confront him. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8b47dceb5f79f5d29591)
- rui***, Oct 14, 2025: rui*** sharply rebukes wen*** and asks whether they read what was written in ECF 733. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd742f80a494e4b43c70e)
## Weighing Joint Appeals Versus Individual Action and Compliance Risks for Victims

Participants debate the legal risks, procedural benefits, and fee requirements of joint appeals compared to filing individually.

- rui***, Oct 15, 2025: rui*** warns that joint filings carry risks of being accused of conspiracy. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q87d2523359d2da4f12fb)
- chu***, Oct 15, 2025: chu*** suggests researching whether appealing individually or jointly is preferable depending on the circumstances. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q788dd1902c3049c670d9)
- tut***, Oct 15, 2025: tut*** explains that multiple petitioners can jointly submit a single mandamus petition combining 21 U.S.C. § 853(n) and 18 U.S.C. § 3771 claims under FRAP 21, pay a single filing fee, or individually seek in forma pauperis relief under FRAP 24. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8105e3a5e41fc1077c9e)
## Pro Se Service Rules, Motion Filing Progress, and the Need for Retaining Counsel

Participants evaluate local pro se filing and service procedures in district court and debate hiring an attorney solely for document submission.

- ath***, Oct 17, 2025: ath*** asks what steps follow filing pro se documents with the court and whether copies must be served on prosecutors. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe28482deb716a2a947a8)
- reb***, Oct 14, 2025: reb*** describes Southern District of New York local rules requiring special permission for pro se email submissions in criminal cases, advising that mailing paper copies and requesting written explanations prevents the Second Circuit from rejecting mandamus petitions. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb41249e4ca1fa86cf765)
- wei***, Oct 15, 2025: wei*** agrees that hiring an attorney solely to handle document uploads would be a viable approach. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf2e64bba70e997b9a0f9)
## Reflections on Legal Strategy and Commercial Philosophy Through the Television Series Tian Dao

Participants draw analogies from the television series Tian Dao to discuss legal tactics and strategic mindsets.

- chu***, Oct 14, 2025: chu*** recounts watching an analysis of Tian Dao, asserting that the drama reflects complementary strengths rather than robbing the rich to help the poor. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf6c2e12695aababca2e3)
- ntp***, Oct 14, 2025: ntp*** asks whether a mandamus petition can be filed only pursuant to the CVRA. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbd6ad7c31ad3aca9139c)
- rui***, Oct 14, 2025: rui*** remarks that in this dispute, participants represent both Ding Yuanying and the Wangmiao villagers. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q83a2d80240432484e96a)
## Veteran Investor Fund Recovery, Crowdfunded Litigation, and Farm Alliance Accountability Planning

Participants revisit past statements regarding G-series investments and discuss litigation strategies and collective grievances.

- ken***, Oct 15, 2025: ken*** cites a Mar 24, 2021 live broadcast where Guo urged veteran chair investors, loan participants, and G-Club buyers lacking adequate living conditions to withdraw their investments, arguing investments were separate from political activism. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc7f457fafce5ada47e53)
- him***, Oct 15, 2025: him*** contends that while appeals do not require joint signatures, motions can highlight that many participants encountered identical circumstances to prompt court attention. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q030d2eb5c0915c156d4c)
- hah***, Oct 17, 2025: hah*** sends a message without any text content. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3df7f8c1a8797207f75c)