# Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok): community discussion 051

Community discussion, batch 051 (Oct 23, 2025 – Oct 25, 2025), 1,000 messages, on the Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok) case. Participants debate judicial developments concerning the criminal case and forfeiture proceedings, focusing on attorney Geyer's motion representing 6,500 investors and its compliance with CVRA relief standards. Two primary defense theories emerge: dismantling the victim narrative by carving out digital assets versus seeking dismissal over alleged prosecutorial fraud and Brady violations. The exchange also examines Motion 733, Rule 60 applicability, Second Circuit appellate updates, farm leader liabilities, victim status definitions, and AI legal analysis.

Firsthand participant accounts and investment experiences, preserved with dates, sources and reply context.

English reading guide and paraphrases; Chinese source messages remain authoritative.

## Debate over Attorney Geyer's Representation of 6,500 Individuals, Legal Stance, and Conflicts with Private Claimants

Participants dispute attorney Geyer's claim of representing 6,500 investors and question his procedural legitimacy and conflicts with private claimants.

- him***, Oct 24, 2025: him*** criticizes attorney Geyer for claiming the court should appreciate his effort to consolidate over 6,500 individuals to reduce judicial burden. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc84c1467695d03909111)
- him***, Oct 24, 2025: him*** contends that Geyer is simply claiming funds on behalf of 6,500 people for his own convenience. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q48545dad10b4af9644cd)
- rod***, Oct 24, 2025: rod*** disputes the claim of 6,500 individuals, alleging that the figure was fabricated. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q64d227817c17c6f65e06)
## Debate over Defense Strategies: Carving out Third-Party Assets to Rebut the Victim Narrative vs. Asserting Judicial Fraud

Participants debate alternative strategies for overturning the conviction, contrasting digital asset carve-outs with motions alleging judicial fraud.

- him***, Oct 25, 2025: him*** contends that fraud prosecutions do not legally require victims. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q432c295c14d1113c674a)
- him***, Oct 25, 2025: him*** argues that the prosecution previously stated a conviction could be obtained without establishing victims. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3d329ce7aebfbb821087)
- rui***, Oct 25, 2025: rui*** asserts that financial claims are secondary and contends that their Motion 733 alleging judicial fraud is the principal avenue. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q241cf7ea49633c42b863)
## Debate over AI-Assisted Analysis of Motion 733 and the Applicability of Rule 60

Participants dispute the validity of AI-generated analyses concerning Motion 733 and the procedural applicability of Rule 60.

- hah***, Oct 25, 2025: hah*** shares an analytical post evaluating Motion 733 and Rule 60. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q859345ace961cec66f9b)
- rui***, Oct 25, 2025: rui*** disputes the shared analysis, contending that its first point is entirely false. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb3f790e6ac24c54bb8ef)
- rui***, Oct 25, 2025: rui*** further rejects the analysis, arguing that its second point is also incorrect. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6b549dfc72cc30e22740)
## Second Circuit Rejection Grounds, CVRA Relief Motion Standards, and Practice Disputes

Participants discuss procedural filing requirements referencing Document 679 and dispute whether the Second Circuit rejected an appeal.

- reb***, Oct 25, 2025: reb*** suggests that Document 679 may need to be printed and mailed together because the court might not check past filings on its own. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2eee1185100de37f7d69)
- pz0***, Oct 25, 2025: pz0*** claims that the Second Circuit refused to hear the appeal, asserting that their prediction was validated. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q73e31c1cbeae2165eba7)
- rui***, Oct 25, 2025: rui*** disputes pz0***'s claim, contending that the prediction was not correct. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd22103cf4e6273f6fec3)
## Disputes over Victim Status Definition, Geyer's Representation Role, and Restitution Claims

Participants argue over attorney Geyer's shifting representational posture and consider pursuing legal claims against him for alleged rights violations.

- wei***, Oct 25, 2025: wei*** urges rui*** to claim in court that Geyer infringed on victim rights and committed fraud on the court, advising a demand for compensation from him. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc77d77d159be4d9e9fbb)
- wei***, Oct 25, 2025: wei*** advises citing specific document numbers and relevant contents to provide solid evidence. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q225575c6b4b6c737ffba)
- wei***, Oct 25, 2025: wei*** contends that seeking financial recovery directly in court is the only proper solution. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qef006a8d1b8e9037ded6)
## Discussion on Court Documents Regarding Farm Leaders as Co-Conspirators and Registration Agreements

Participants examine court documents 344, 382, and 388 regarding co-conspirator designations of farm leaders and dispute the validity of associated agreements.

- him***, Oct 25, 2025: him*** cites Documents 344, 382, and 388 to argue that farm leaders are recognized co-conspirators whose registration agreements should be invalidated rather than used for claims. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdc3af62f145286d3d100)
- an7***, Oct 25, 2025: an7*** mocks the argument, contending that the speaker is reacting out of panic over the case being dismissed. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe581657eaddaa8e585f6)
- rui***, Oct 25, 2025: rui*** sarcastically challenges an7*** to persuade the prosecution to dismiss the case. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q12206476cc2b3df5fac5)
## Methodological Disagreements over AI-Assisted Case Analysis

Participants dispute the utility of AI-assisted legal analysis, questioning whether complex modeling distracts from drafting practical motions.

- ntp***, Oct 24, 2025: ntp*** questions the utility of the ongoing analysis, arguing that time would be better spent drafting actual motions. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4c369f3d9ef818c3a35c)
- ntp***, Oct 24, 2025: ntp*** contends that effort is being misdirected and wasted on ineffective methods. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfeaa3ba5139bb9aec054)
- ntp***, Oct 24, 2025: ntp*** criticizes the workflow for overcomplicating simple matters contrary to the purpose of artificial intelligence. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q493ca1ea978f70f82aea)
## Debate over Forfeiture Proceeding Progress and Acceptance of a Potential Pardon

Participants inquire into the completion status of forfeiture proceedings and discuss pending prosecution filings.

- hon***, Oct 23, 2025: hon*** shares an external link regarding the case proceedings. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4aa862cb0005cc424bd9)
- rui***, Oct 23, 2025: rui*** states that the matter will conclude once the prosecution files its motion. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbc03c0aa0bcfa912af6e)
- him***, Oct 23, 2025: him*** asks whether the forfeiture proceedings have officially ended. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4098733f973e33d4015e)
## Speculation Regarding Trustee Luc Despins's Role, Motives for Asset Recovery, and Absence from Criminal Court

Participants speculate on why bankruptcy trustee Luc Despins has not formally intervened in the criminal forfeiture proceedings to pursue funds.

- chu***, Oct 24, 2025: chu*** asks why trustee Luc Despins has not formally intervened in the case to claim the thirty-two billion dollars. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q44d67c6fceb6e9f9f194)
- chu***, Oct 24, 2025: chu*** presses pz0*** to explain why Despins was active in criminal court yet has not moved to claim funds. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q213c619bafd407bf73ab)
- chu***, Oct 24, 2025: chu*** calls on opponents of Guo to clarify why Despins is not intervening to seize assets. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q97bb6d6473b16a72683d)
## Debate over Evidentiary Feasibility of Prosecutorial Fraud Allegations and Paths to Dismissal

Participants dispute whether prosecutorial fraud on the court can be proven or if dismissal depends on collapsing the victim narrative.

- an7***, Oct 24, 2025: an7*** argues that proving prosecutorial fraud is virtually impossible and contends that dismissal will instead stem from dismantling the victim narrative. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3870b9dd3350981e33c9)
- rui***, Oct 24, 2025: rui*** states that they spared Geyer because he initially cited Motion 733. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q03f7d910b278a10879e9)
- rui***, Oct 24, 2025: rui*** contends that prosecutorial fraud on the court has already been established. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8ec4fc627dca01397474)