# Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok): community discussion 063 Community discussion, batch 063 (Dec 10, 2025 – Dec 16, 2025), 1,000 messages, on the Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok) case. Discussion centered on competing procedural rights and narrative control, focusing on court filings such as 733 and 774/773 alongside CVRA and §853(n) docketing paths. Participants debated whether prosecution and judicial actions reflected political bias or constituted fraud upon the court. Disagreements emerged over verifying social media evidence links, defining victim versus co-conspirator standing, and choosing between appellate relief under Rule 60(d)(3) or broader public mobilization without reaching consensus. Firsthand participant accounts and investment experiences, preserved with dates, sources and reply context. English reading guide and paraphrases; Chinese source messages remain authoritative. ## Parallel Allegations of Judicial Neutrality and Political Manipulation Participants debate judicial impartiality and allege that the court displayed bias in favor of the prosecution. - beg***, Dec 11, 2025: beg*** contends that third-party pro se filers boldly challenge the presiding judge regarding alleged stonewalling and suppression in ways formal attorneys would avoid. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q89fd2cb5550d8c07a01c) - beg***, Dec 11, 2025: beg*** argues that Judge Torres is frustrated by the persistence and honesty of pro se filers. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q74ccd6b69bd048354915) - beg***, Dec 11, 2025: beg*** recalls defense counsel receiving tens of thousands of pages of late evidence and contends that the judge showed partiality by failing to exclude those prosecution materials. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q220a0c2f2edcc4352b73) ## Dispute Over Anti-CCP Slogans and Practical Strategy Participants dispute the practical effectiveness of repeating anti-CCP slogans versus delivering tangible contributions. - xin***, Dec 10, 2025: xin*** argues that Trump's strategic posture directly pressures the Chinese Communist Party and questions what actual results the NFSC leadership delivered. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3e74026eb776591b3685) - him***, Dec 10, 2025: him*** asserts that only a specific redacted participant is genuinely dedicated to opposing the CCP. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1cef25852e970a3ecf86) - xin***, Dec 10, 2025: xin*** asks what practical contributions have been made by those who continually chant anti-CCP slogans. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7b0e4bad0b4d5974dacc) ## Debate Over Verifiability of Social Media Evidence Chains Participants circulate external social media posts while examining the reliability of online evidence. - him***, Dec 10, 2025: him*** shares an external post from X concerning case-related evidence. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0694d48f8fe87e50935b) - him***, Dec 10, 2025: him*** posts a second social media link from X regarding the ongoing discussion. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7b9000492dd67b210500) - chu***, Dec 10, 2025: chu*** distributes another external link from X referencing background materials. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q56c74ef36b02b6024a3b) ## CVRA and §853(n) as the Main Procedural Axes Participants analyze procedural contradictions between government filings and third-party claims submitted under the CVRA and §853(n). - roy***, Dec 12, 2025: roy*** contends that applying the premise of filing 511 to the mandamus petition exposes a procedural paradox where the government claims to represent victims while blocking their CVRA and §853(n) filings from the docket. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf80c3b7ebd400e8dfe3f) - roy***, Dec 12, 2025: roy*** argues that filing 511 implicitly admits the existence of excluded investors and shows prosecutors stigmatizing them instead of permitting formal §853(n) hearings. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf3060865e03e5acb9528) - roy***, Dec 12, 2025: roy*** emphasizes that prevailing under the rule of law depends on creating an official court record rather than expressing outrage. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5bf3c1824526897b8b7b) ## Dispute Over Timelines in Documents 773 and 774 and Sentencing Pacing Participants review the government's opposition in document 773 against further sentencing postponements and debate the resulting timeline. - ntp***, Dec 12, 2025: ntp*** summarizes document 773, detailing the Department of Justice's Dec 11, 2025 letter opposing the defense's fifth sentencing postponement request. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7429da42c62de967d1ca) - ntp***, Dec 12, 2025: ntp*** contends that prosecutors will not dismiss the case and questions whether Judge Torres will protect their position. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q802784947538f54684a9) - him***, Dec 12, 2025: him*** argues that the parties are maneuvering discreetly rather than stating their intentions openly. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfda9fc7f9c6459c8d10f) ## Anticipated Relief Paths via the Second Circuit and Higher Courts Participants discuss procedural boundaries and what claims can be raised before the Second Circuit in mandamus filings. - ntp***, Dec 12, 2025: ntp*** asks whether these specific substantive grievances can be presented to the Second Circuit in a writ of mandamus. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q27f59436977fb846eace) - him***, Dec 12, 2025: him*** expresses skepticism that such claims are permissible in that mandamus petition. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q51927e03118a954f9335) - ntp***, Dec 12, 2025: ntp*** notes that their petition specifically asks the Southern District to upload pending motions and questions the scope of the peer's filing. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qacfbfdd23b7c368e9eea) ## Threshold of Fraud Upon the Court and Actionability Participants debate whether claims of fraud upon the court under Rule 60(d)(3) can be deferred until after sentencing. - him***, Dec 14, 2025: him*** argues that while the Second Circuit allows Rule 60(d)(3) claims after sentencing, district courts lack authority to ignore or refuse to docket colorable fraud upon the court claims prior to sentencing. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q47263bdec32b572ee6a7) - him***, Dec 14, 2025: him*** contends that alleging fraud upon the court carries the same legal weight whether raised under §853(n) or the CVRA. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6b436b6700579d45a281) - zha***, Dec 14, 2025: zha*** argues that fraud upon the court can be raised at any point and that pre-sentencing submissions directly affecting proceedings require a formal judicial response. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q59350a1fd50ac526d0d4) ## Boundaries Between Victim and Third-Party Status Participants examine how prosecutorial filings divide investors into recognized fraud victims and alleged co-conspirators. - rui***, Dec 12, 2025: rui*** asserts that a named individual is working in coordination with the prosecution. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5ef10713f28159980b90) - reb***, Dec 12, 2025: reb*** recalls that document 511 defined investors as either victims acknowledging fraud or co-conspirators who claim government asset seizures caused their losses. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q015b12e8940d2bc942db) - him***, Dec 12, 2025: him*** contends that the prosecution reiterated this two-category framework in filing 773. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdc98d0c64aec83a649f1) ## Expansion of Third-Party and Co-Conspirator Relational Frameworks Participants inquire into the identity and procedural status of individuals designated as key co-conspirators in court filings. - beg***, Dec 10, 2025: beg*** inquires about the identities of Mr. A and Haoran He mentioned in the case materials. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9ffe73854eddabcc7a0b) - chu***, Dec 10, 2025: chu*** describes Haoran He from the court filings as a classmate of Qiang Guo and a core co-conspirator. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7e69616d2421fee82776) - rui***, Dec 10, 2025: rui*** recounts hearing that Haoran He had originally arranged to host a broadcast with a redacted participant on sentencing day. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf0d43634443bec557328) ## Conflicting Evidentiary Standards on Substantiated Versus Unproven Claims Participants dispute whether assertions of deception and guilt require formal evidentiary substantiation. - rui***, Dec 12, 2025: rui*** recounts having been defrauded by Guo but disputes that another named individual could deceive them. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf998421c318dfdc8f1bb) - him***, Dec 12, 2025: him*** contends that the assertion lacks evidentiary proof. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q09ed0be52b96d840728a) - rui***, Dec 12, 2025: rui*** argues that their conclusion is not derived from evidentiary proof. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3ca06c18ad48489ac989) ## Group Governance and Escalating Disputes Over Channel Access Participants manage chat group permissions and raise strategic questions regarding the pacing of sentencing. - chu***, Dec 12, 2025: chu*** describes setting designated speaking permissions for the criminal case room and invites members to migrate substantive content there. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q98a73fe27a15ba189fce) - zha***, Dec 12, 2025: zha*** asks whether prosecutors intend to expedite sentencing and questions whether an earlier or later sentence is preferable. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf804d50cf3dbfabf9895) - sar***, Dec 12, 2025: sar*** expresses difficulty understanding the reasoning behind the procedural discussion. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfbda09c0349becbf1f01)