# Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok): community discussion 160

Community discussion, batch 160 (Sep 23, 2026 – Sep 28, 2026), 1,000 messages, on the Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok) case. Participants debate the legal impact of the Second Circuit's latest ruling, disputing whether dismissing the mandamus petition while granting the district court four months pressures the judge or causes procedural delay. Discussions address counsel substitution, Cronic constitutional risks, Rule 853(n) property rights, Himalaya Exchange loan characterizations, and attribution of the $889 million forfeiture. Additionally, participants clash over internal factional strife, rumored disappearances, shifting stances among key figures, and whether to report matters to external agencies.

Firsthand participant accounts and investment experiences, preserved with dates, sources and reply context.

English reading guide and paraphrases; Chinese source messages remain authoritative.

## Debating the Impact of the Second Circuit Ruling: Pressuring the District Court or Procedural Delay

Participants evaluate the Second Circuit's latest docket entries, disputing whether the appellate ruling exerts pressure on the district court or represents procedural delay.

- joh***, Sep 27, 2026: joh*** notes with amusement that the recent court actions have entered the docket. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q229e153d1bd579a2aa84)
- ntp***, Sep 27, 2026: ntp*** contends that the Second Circuit did nothing substantive beyond issuing a dismissal and is merely dragging out the proceedings. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf27e6b9126b9588546ee)
- sar***, Sep 27, 2026: sar*** observes that sentencing has occurred and asks whether three participants have had their restrictions lifted. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8ee74e80206bddf95045)
## Focusing on Penson and Cronic Constitutional Risks Amid Attorney Withdrawal and Lack of Substantive Representation

Participants discuss the denial of defense motions, arguing that counsel withdrawals and unrepresented periods create severe constitutional risks under Cronic.

- kir***, Sep 27, 2026: kir*** reports that all motions to vacate and relief under Section 2106 have been denied. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qedd00ae844388ef013f1)
- kir***, Sep 27, 2026: kir*** emphasizes the severe implications of the court's latest denials. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qda8230c66eb8d93bd324)
- joh***, Sep 27, 2026: joh*** argues that Judge Torres favored the prosecution throughout the proceedings and now faces heightened pressure. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1cb72914fb8bcad5c81e)
## Analyzing the Background of Appointed Second Circuit Appellate Counsel and Opening Brief Preparation

Participants examine the background of newly appointed appellate counsel Benjamin Gruenstein, analyzing potential legal arguments for the Second Circuit opening brief.

- roy***, Sep 27, 2026: roy*** details attorney Benjamin Gruenstein's Supreme Court experience in Fernandez v. United States, No. 24-556, explaining that Gruenstein is taking over the merits appeal in 26-1853 and must decide which issues concerning account control, ECF 383, ECF 858, and the $889 million forfeiture to raise under Local Rule 31.2. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q95de3c51f4d5f9b01cdc)
- beg***, Sep 27, 2026: beg*** inquires about who submitted the denied motion to appoint a federal defender as substitute counsel. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q30d3f05d69d379014a6e)
- kir***, Sep 27, 2026: kir*** asks where that specific ruling or filing took place. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q35b82f3d0fcfe5ccc039)
## Legal Analysis of Himalaya Exchange Customers' Section 853(n) Independent Property Claims, Constructive Trusts, and Asset Tracing

Participants analyze formal court filings by third-party claimants, examining Section 853(n) property claims, constructive trusts, and fund tracing theories over Himalaya Exchange accounts.

- roy***, Sep 24, 2026: roy*** distinguishes the Lionheart mandamus petition in ECF 871 from Bradford Geyer's Section 853(n) petition in ECF 872, noting that authenticated Himalaya Exchange customers formally introduced their own fund-tracing theory into criminal case 23-cr-118 on Aug 28, 2026. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q185a639edd68370800fd)
- roy***, Sep 24, 2026: roy*** explains that ECF 872 uses an April 19, 2022 loan of $37 million to trace customer reserves across Himalaya International Clearing and related entities, though Judge Torres has not yet validated this constructive-trust claim. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfd648801a3c22fe850c3)
- roy***, Sep 24, 2026: roy*** notes that ECF 872 cites Daugerdas to argue bankruptcy settlements cannot extinguish third-party Section 853(n) rights over specific accounts totaling over $290 million, while observing that ECF 871 references Mountains of Spices LLC v. Lafrenz, 2:21-cv-01497 (D. Ariz.). [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf2f3f9aae778b8b3549e)
## Exploring William Je's Actual Control Over Subject Accounts and Audit Perspectives on the $889 Million Forfeiture

Participants examine court affidavits and trial transcripts concerning William Je's signatory control over corporate accounts and debate the allocation of the $889 million forfeiture.

- roy***, Sep 23, 2026: roy*** cites FBI Special Agent Zachary Effting's affidavit in 23-cr-118 ECF 790-2 from Jan 19, 2026, alongside trial testimony in ECF 429, to demonstrate that William Je held sole signatory authority and direct control over the UAE ACA Capital Account before funds were transferred to family entities. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qac415f2578b1823d33bf)
- joh***, Sep 23, 2026: joh*** remarks that roy***'s documentary evidence carries significant weight and will provoke him***. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q458d8f5425c5512d3ec3)
- joh***, Sep 23, 2026: joh*** contends that isolating William Je's role would shift $550 million in frozen exchange funds and $150 million in farm loans away from Guo's $889 million forfeiture total. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q534ab01c6fcf157ff002)
## Debating the Characterization of the $37 Million Himalaya Exchange Loan and Elements of Money Laundering Charges

Participants dispute the prosecution's characterization of the $37 million loan and debate the legal definition of cryptocurrency regarding fraud charges.

- reb***, Sep 24, 2026: reb*** argues that prosecutors misled jurors by framing the $37 million loan to Mei Guo as coming from reserves, asserting that platform sales easily covered that amount and that defense counsel failed to make this clear. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcb9c8299e85f8445b0b5)
- reb***, Sep 24, 2026: reb*** contends that because cryptocurrency lacks a statutory definition, describing HDO and HCN as cryptocurrencies should not constitute a legally actionable misrepresentation. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7935fbe5872549073fac)
- joh***, Sep 24, 2026: joh*** suggests defense counsel lacked cryptocurrency expertise or went along with the proceedings, arguing that aside from the $37 million loan, no direct connection ties the exchange to the Guo family. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qab5a29c10cc1672b8eb7)
## Discussions Surrounding Rumors of Community Figure 'Brother Luosi' Losing Contact and Assessments of Internal Personnel

Participants recount personal interactions with Brother Luosi and discuss rumors regarding his disappearance alongside evaluations of movement figures.

- him***, Sep 23, 2026: him*** recounts warning Brother Luosi from their very first meeting that people in the movement were untrustworthy. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q744f788f9ebe2f5003c5)
- him***, Sep 23, 2026: him*** recalls that Brother Luosi agreed with that assessment during their initial conversation. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q81be3419a8042f9ab1ec)
- him***, Sep 23, 2026: him*** asks other chat participants whether they dispute his view of the group's leadership. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q31f0794986c8c7ae550d)
## Internal Factional Strife and Suspected Stance Shifts Triggered by Public Statements of Key Personnel

Participants assess recent public remarks by community figures, debating internal factional conflict and suspected shifts in personal alignment.

- ntp***, Sep 27, 2026: ntp*** shares an external social media post concerning recent public statements from community members. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qce9297f3baf959252405)
- sar***, Sep 27, 2026: sar*** remarks that movement figures have begun attacking each other publicly. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q51545e4705ad6101f0c1)
- ntp***, Sep 27, 2026: ntp*** questions which faction a prominent speaker belongs to, noting that the individual has attacked multiple internal figures simultaneously. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q09e26200790a5bd1a4ee)
## Advocacy and Disagreements Over Reporting to External Agencies and Prompting Investigations

Participants dispute the timing and strategy for pursuing external investigations, debating whether to appeal to Congress, the FBI, or other bodies.

- ntp***, Sep 26, 2026: ntp*** asks sarcastically whether certain individuals are now able to return to Pangu Plaza to resume their previous activities. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q11da00a0271bcc2b1197)
- kir***, Sep 26, 2026: kir*** argues that congressional inquiries follow FBI investigations and rebukes others for failing to understand the strategic timeline for investigations. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa1f61bd1d3457714cf32)
- kir***, Sep 26, 2026: kir*** urges joh*** to recognize that a congressional investigation should be pursued immediately. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3a6bc4c3b90d152cea03)