# Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok): community discussion 161

Community discussion, batch 161 (Sep 28, 2026 – Oct 1, 2026), 803 messages, on the Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok) case. Participants debate recent Second Circuit rulings denying motions to recuse the judge and vacate victim-related orders, while evaluating how a newly appointed CJA defense counsel impacts the appeal. Debates focus on ancillary proceedings, the scope and validity of forfeiture orders, bankruptcy settlements, and the $889 million money judgment calculation. Meanwhile, internal community friction intensifies over Hahn's unindicted co-conspirator status and non-prosecution agreement, rumors of Brother Luosi's detention, alleged witness coercion, and farm loan characterizations.

Firsthand participant accounts and investment experiences, preserved with dates, sources and reply context.

English reading guide and paraphrases; Chinese source messages remain authoritative.

## Interpretations and Reactions Regarding Second Circuit Rulings Denying Motions to Recuse Judge and Overturn the Case

Participants analyze the Second Circuit's ruling denying motions to disqualify the trial judge and dismiss the case, highlighting specific wording in the decision.

- kir***, Sep 30, 2026: kir*** contends that the court order issued on Sep 25, 2026 contains an extraordinary situation. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa02c637e14722ab301bc)
- kir***, Sep 30, 2026: kir*** contends that the final sentence of that order is especially significant. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfc40fdac9cf9e9869a1f)
## Discussion on Second Circuit Mandamus Rejection, Final Forfeiture Order Validity, and Criticisms of Judicial Efficiency

Participants debate whether Docket 858 constitutes a final forfeiture order and criticize the court's pace in resolving third-party property rights.

- reb***, Sep 29, 2026: reb*** argues that the Second Circuit treated Docket 858 as a final forfeiture order while questioning why it maintained that Southern District proceedings had not fully concluded. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0e527fd4ffae4324e487)
- kir***, Sep 29, 2026: kir*** disputes this interpretation, contending that the Second Circuit did not agree to initiate forfeiture proceedings either. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q16d9543fd157e5d6589b)
## Appointment of New CJA Defense Counsel, Appellate Progress, and Litigation Strategy

Participants discuss the appointment of a CJA defense attorney following prior counsel's withdrawal and consider litigation options for third parties.

- reb***, Sep 29, 2026: reb*** recounts that an order approved the withdrawal of original counsel and appointed a CJA attorney. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6e64735946b0f571c400)
- beg***, Sep 29, 2026: beg*** contends that third parties should litigate independently if main defense counsel is compromised. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q74c44cd58c210a4a1a1b)
## Timing of Ancillary Proceedings, Forfeiture Deadlines, and Third-Party Asset Ownership Determinations

Participants examine when criminal ancillary proceedings should open and how third-party claims complicate the government's financial accounting.

- joh***, Sep 30, 2026: joh*** contends that forfeiture in case 488 could have opened earlier after Wang's sentencing to include G-Club and Luc before registrations were paused pending Guo's sentencing. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q665f358181ac40997d7f)
- joh***, Sep 30, 2026: joh*** argues that prosecutors must meticulously calculate involved sums after sentencing because third-party claims disrupt the government's accounting. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q21b2be59ef3a5f83082e)
## Scope of Preliminary Forfeiture Order Unsealing, Third-Party Ownership Claims, and Docket Filings

Participants discuss specific docket orders concerning preliminary forfeiture and third-party property ownership.

- kir***, Sep 30, 2026: kir*** describes being unable to understand the court order previously shared in the discussion. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3b6443a9fe0a070ee6a1)
- kir***, Sep 30, 2026: kir*** identifies the document under discussion as Docket 488-720. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd5a6c44fc8f48cf6d7b2)
## Questioning the Prosecution Settlement with the Bankruptcy Trustee, Victim Statements, and the $889 Million Money Judgment

Participants challenge the prosecution's settlement with the bankruptcy trustee and question the legitimacy of victim impact statements supporting the $889 million money judgment.

- joh***, Sep 30, 2026: joh*** argues that the prosecution settling with the trustee undermines its own position, leaving it reliant on only 200 victim statements while 6,000 G-Club members remain unacknowledged as victims. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc99b32ae4495d98ce543)
- joh***, Sep 30, 2026: joh*** contends that most victim statements originated from 300 farm leaders who acted as co-conspirators, questioning what evidence might appear in Docket 853. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa7dbf65e18f5b659d3d3)
## Controversies Surrounding Hahn's Non-Prosecution Agreement, Unindicted Co-Conspirator Status, Testimony, and Farm Funds

Participants dispute Hahn's unindicted co-conspirator status and her statements alleging Chinese government involvement in coordinating non-prosecution agreements.

- joh***, Sep 29, 2026: joh*** recounts an online post alleging that Hahn claimed Chinese authorities approached her to sign a non-prosecution agreement regarding GTV activities. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q55772e5387c0f5a2b026)
- joh***, Sep 29, 2026: joh*** contends that Hahn admitted to CCP involvement in coordinating non-prosecution agreements, arguing that Chinese authorities were manipulating both prosecution and defense sides. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q77dc94ff91580ceb5d13)
## Bankruptcy Alter Ego Litigation Progress and Its Relationship to the Criminal Final Forfeiture List

Participants examine how alter ego claims in bankruptcy litigation intersect with the distribution of criminally forfeited assets.

- joh***, Sep 30, 2026: joh*** argues that alter ego litigation and objections from family entities and G-Club are critical because assets are being divided before ownership is determined in the criminal case. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3706593457df65fc3272)
- kir***, Sep 30, 2026: kir*** disputes the premise of the claims, questioning whether an alter ego finding would allow the bankruptcy trustee to pursue assets directly from Guo. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe24563ddf4f379139b98)
## Disagreements Over Rumors of Brother Luosi's Detention, Factional Disputes, and Accusations of Defection

Participants debate rumors concerning Brother Luosi's detention and disappearance while exchanging mutual accusations of disloyalty.

- him***, Sep 28, 2026: him*** contends that anyone unconcerned with Brother Luosi's disappearance is not genuinely dedicated to opposing the CCP. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8df9f77ef8644ecdcacb)
- may***, Sep 30, 2026: may*** describes Brother Luosi as dead and recounts being unable to reach him by phone. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q02a8ba21e04ddfb0706f)
## Examination of Trial Records, Analysis of Alleged Witness Coercion, and Characterization of Farm Loans

Participants evaluate trial testimony and court documents regarding alleged witness coercion and analyze how prosecutors characterized farm loans.

- roy***, Oct 1, 2026: roy*** recounts trial transcripts from Jun 6, 2024 and Jun 7, 2024, alongside declarations in Document 822-3 and Document 851, noting that documented pressures on witnesses do not yet substantiate claims that farm leaders were coerced into signing non-prosecution agreements. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7d2b7289c3c51474d1b3)
- joh***, Oct 1, 2026: joh*** argues that legitimate loans were framed as fraud due to missed interest payments and contends that prosecutors strategically portrayed ACA Capital as a family entity to claim funds were used for personal consumption. [Chinese original](https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6b418bd5aa6f0efbe3a9)