Guo Wengui / Miles Guo — bankruptcy case · ORDER · ECF #2168

UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT DISTRICT OF CONNECTICUT BRIDGEPORT DIVISION In Re \* Case No. 22-50073 (JAM) \* HO WAN KWOK and GENEVER \* HOLDINGS CORPORATION, \* \* Debtor. \* LUC A. DESPINS, \* Adv. Proc. No. 23-05017 \* \* Bridgeport, Connecticut Plaintiff, \* August 22, 2023 \* v. \* \* TAURUS FUND, LLC, et al., \* \* Defendants. \* \* \* \* \* \* \* \* \* \* \* \* \* \* \* \* \* \* TRANSCRIPT OF ORDER TO SHOW CAUSE WHY HUDSON DIAMOND HOLDING LLC SHOULD NOT BE HELD IN CONTEMPT OF COURT BEFORE THE HONORABLE JULIE A. MANNING UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY JUDGE APPEARANCES: Chapter 11 Trustee: LUC A. DESPINS, ESQ. Paul Hastings LLP 200 Park Avenue New York, NY 10166 For the Chapter 11 Trustee: AVRAM EMMANUEL LUFT, ESQ. LUYI SONG, ESQ. Paul Hastings LLP 200 Park Avenue New York, NY 10166 PATRICK R. LINSEY, ESQ. Neubert Pepe and Monteith 195 Church Street,13th Floor New Haven, CT 06510 Proceedings recorded by electronic sound recording, transcript produced by transcription service.

APPEARANCES: For U.S. Trustee: HOLLEY L. CLAIBORN, ESQ. Office of U.S. Trustee The Giaimo Federal Building 150 Court Street, Room 302 New Haven, CT 06510 For the Plaintiff, LEE VARTAN, ESQ. HK International Funds and MELISSA F. WERNICK, ESQ. Mei Guo: Chiesa Shahinian & Giantomasi, PC 105 Eisenhauer Pkwy Roseland, NJ 07068 AARON A. ROMNEY, ESQ. Zeisler & Zeisler, P.C. 10 Middle Street, 15th FL Bridgeport, CT 06604 For Ms. Guo, individually: STANLEY A. TWARDY, JR., ESQ. (Criminal defense atty) Day Pitney One Stamford Plaza 263 Tresser Blvd. Stamford, CT 06901 Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 3 of 138

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 3 (Proceedings commenced at 2:01 p.m.) THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: 22-50073, Ho Wan Kwok and Genever Holding, LLC. THE COURT: Good afternoon. If we could have appearances for the record, starting with the Chapter 11 Trustee, please. MR. DESPINS: Good afternoon, Your Honor. Luc Despins, Chapter 11 Trustee. MR. LUFT: Good afternoon, Your Honor. Avi Luft of Paul Hastings in behalf of the Chapter 11 Trustee. MR. LINSEY: Good afternoon, Your Honor. Patrick Linsey of Neubert, Pepe & Monteith, Connecticut counsel for the trustee. MS. SONG: Good afternoon, Your Honor. Luyi Song from Paul Hastings on behalf of the trustee. MS. CLAIBORN: Good afternoon, Your Honor. Holley Claiborn for the U.S. Trustee. MR. VARTAN: Good afternoon, Your Honor. Lee Vartan on behalf of Hudson Diamond Holding, LLC. MR. ROMNEY: Good afternoon, Your Honor. Aaron Romney, Zeisler & Zeisler, on behalf of Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC. MS. WERNICK: And good afternoon, Your Honor. Melissa Wernick of CSG Law on behalf of Hudson Diamond Holding, LLC as well.

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1 THE COURT: Good afternoon.

2 appearances we need to take for the record? 3 MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, if I might?

4 Stanley A. Twardy, Jr. with the law firm of Day Pitney.

5 here representing Ms. Guo in her individual capacity.

6 her criminal defense lawyer. 7 THE COURT: Good afternoon. 8 MR. TWARDY: Good afternoon, Your Honor. 9 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: I'm sorry.

10 your last name. 11 MR. TWARDY:

12 card. Would that be helpful? 13 THE COURT: That'd be helpful, Attorney Twardy. 14 Thank you. 15 All right.

16 order to show -- to appear and show cause why Hudson Diamond 17 Holdings, LLC should not be held in contempt and requiring 18 Ms. Guo to appear and testify.

19 provide the opportunity for Ms. Guo to file a -- an 20 affidavit, which she did.

21 actually, in response to the order to appear and show cause. 22 And I appreciate that that affidavit was filed, that 23 declaration was filed, because that -- that's complying with 24 the Court's order. 25 But now we need to move on to the actual

1 testimony, which I assume is going forward.

2 correct, Trustee Despins and -- I don't know, Attorney 3 Vartan or Attorney -- who is going to be appearing on behalf 4 of Hudson Diamond Holding, LLC?

5 testifying in her capacity as the member of Hudson Diamond 6 Holding, LLC. 7 MS. WERNICK:

8 we filed motion earlier today for pro hac vice admission on 9 behalf of the Hudson Diamond Holding, LLC.

10 Honor's permission, you know, happy to proceed in presenting 11 for the entity. 12 THE COURT: That's fine.

13 admitted pro hac in the adversary proceeding, so I'm sure if 14 the paperwork is all in order, it will be fine. 15 MS. WERNICK: Okay. Correct.

16 Honor. 17 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you.

18 Ms. Wernick, you're -- you may proceed.

19 burden at this point to put your -- the -- Ms. Guo on as the 20 representative of Hudson Diamond Holding, LLC.

21 all have a discussion where you're just going to start 22 cross-examination?

23 proceed. 24 MS. WERNICK:

25 declaration as her affirmative testimony.

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Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 6 THE COURT: Okay. So then it's the Chapter 11 Trustee. Are you calling witness to cross-examine the witness? MR. LUFT: Yes. If they're done with their presentation, then I'll move to cross-examine the witness. THE COURT: Ms. Wernick, are you done? MS. WERNICK: Yeah. We would so move. Yes. Thank you. THE COURT: Yes. Okay. MR. LUFT: And to be clear, Your Honor, I assume they're done with their presentation, that we're not changing the order, that there's no evidence they're putting on. MS. WERNICK: Yeah. Subject to our right to rebut. This is our affirmative presentation. THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. Go right ahead, Mr. Luft. MR. LUFT: Your Honor, well, can we call the witness up to the stand to be sworn in? THE COURT: Yes. MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, if I might? Yeah. I think you might go over there. THE COURT: We just need to be by the microphone, Attorney Twardy. MR. TWARDY: Yeah.

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Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 7 THE COURT: I'm sorry. We -- MR. TWARDY: No. I just wanted to know where you wanted me, Your Honor. THE COURT: Yeah. Because we -- the -- our record is kept by audio only. So if we don't pick up your voice on a microphone, we won't be able to record anything you say. Okay? MR. TWARDY: Thank you, Your Honor. THE COURT: Thank you. (Counsel confer) THE COURT: All right. The courtroom deputy is going to swear in the interpreter first and then the witness. Okay? THE INTERPRETER: Thank you, Your Honor. THE COURT: All right. Thank you. THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Please raise your right hand. (The interpreter is sworn) THE COURT: Do you need a chair, or are you okay standing? THE INTERPRETER: I'm good, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. THE INTERPRETER: Thank you. THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: If the witness may raise her right hand?

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Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 8 MEI GUO, WITNESS, SWORN THE COURT: She can be seated. Thank you. THE WITNESS: (Via the interpreter throughout). Okay, Your Honor. MR. DESPINS: Your Honor, can we ask the interpreter to use the interpreter, because our colleague may not -- cannot hear her. THE COURT: Okay. Yeah. And that's not your -- it -- unfortunately, our court only has audio. So we have to talk into the microphones as best as possible. Otherwise, if there's a transcript of this hearing that is requested, it won't pick up what people say. And the transcriber isn't even a person that's in the courtroom. So we have to be very particular. So if I stop you at any point, it's only because I'm trying to make the record as clear as possible. And other people too. I mean, you may say I didn't hear, right? So don't hesitate to say that. Okay? THE INTERPRETER: Thank you, Your Honor. THE COURT: Because we want to make sure the record is accurate. THE INTERPRETER: Thanks. Thanks for clarification. THE COURT: Thank you. Okay, Attorney Luft. You may proceed with

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1 cross-examination. 2 MR. LUFT: Thank you, Your Honor.

4 BY MR. LUFT:

Good afternoon, Ms. Guo. How are you?

I'm very good.

7 you.

Ms. Guo, you're the sole member of Hudson Diamond 9 Holdings, LLC, right?

Yes.

And you've received the subpoena that the trustee 12 issued in its Rule 2004 investigation to Hudson Diamond 13 Holdings, LLC? 14 THE INTERPRETER: Can I have the date again? 15 2004? 16 MR. LUFT: It's Rule 2004. It's not a date. 17 THE INTERPRETER: Oh, Rule 2004. Okay. 18 THE WITNESS: My attorney receive it. 19 BY MR. LUFT:

And he's provided it to you?

Yes.

And you've reviewed it?

I did.

And you understood it?

I understood.

1 Q When did he provide it to you? 2 A I couldn't recall. 3 Q Try your best.

4 you received it? 5 A A couple of months back. 6 Q So does May of 2023 sound right? 7 A I really cannot specifically remember. 8 Q And did you read all the requests in the subpoena? 9 A I did. 10 Q And if there was anything that was unclear in the 11 subpoena, did you ask your counsel for clarification? 12 A I did. 13 Q And are you the sole person at Hudson Diamond Holdings 14 who responded to the subpoena other than your counsel? 15 A Correct. 16 Q Okay. What is the business of Hudson Diamond Holdings? 17 MR. TWARDY:

18 instruct my client not to answer.

19 of the declaration. 20 THE COURT: Hold on. Oh, I'm sorry. 21 MR. TWARDY: I'm sorry. 22 THE COURT: No, no. That's all right. 23 Madam Interpreter, just give me one second. Okay? 24 THE INTERPRETER: Sure. 25 THE COURT: But you're right.

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1 so Ms. Guo understands what her counsel just said. 2 THE INTERPRETER: Yes, ma'am. 3 THE COURT: Okay? So go right ahead. 4 THE INTERPRETER: Thank you. 5 THE COURT: Okay.

7 MR. TWARDY: Declaration. 8 THE COURT: -- of the declaration? 9 MR. TWARDY: Declaration. 10 THE COURT:

11 the declaration as a -- not in her individual capacity but 12 in her capacity as the member of Hudson Diamond Holdings, 13 LLC. And that's what the order to show cause required. 14 She's not testifying in her individual capacity at all. 15 MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, if I might? 16 THE COURT: Yes. 17 MR. TWARDY:

18 the last two sentences: "During the continued hearing, 19 Hudson Diamond Holding may seek to submit Ms. Guo's 20 declaration as her direct testimony.

21 appear at the continued hearing and be available for

23 My point is that the question that's being asked 24 is beyond the scope of the declaration, which is what it 25 was -- put in direct testimony.

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Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 12 MR. LUFT: Your Honor, may I respond? THE COURT: Yes, you may. MR. LUFT: This is ludicrous. I asked her what the business of the company is. Now, that is not any fair reading. They are here for contempt. They were ordered to produce Ms. Guo for testimony today. Under the attorney's logic, he could have written one sentence that said my name is Ms. Guo and then turned around and said, well, that's -- anything else is beyond the scope of the testimony. Your Honor, the scope of this hearing is about their compliance with the subpoenas and whether they are in contempt. That's the scope of this hearing. And any argument to say that I can't ask anything other than what they hand selected to put on a piece of paper is silly. And even then, I would think the fact that she says she's the sole member of Hudson Diamond is well within the scope to just ask what the business is. But I do intend to ask her about the company. I intend to ask her about what it purports -- what documents it has. I mean, that's what we're here for. So I don't think it's -- I don't want to have any false pretense that I'm going to literally only ask about the exact words she put on the piece of paper. That's not the scope of cross-examination. MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, with all due respect, I

1 disagree. If Ms. Guo had just simply said I'm Ms. Guo and 2 that was all that the defendant had put in, then they would 3 not have met the burden of your order, you know, to show 4 cause why contempt should not have been ordered. 5 THE COURT: Okay. I am overruling your objection. 6 This hearing is with regard to the Rule 2004 subpoena that 7 was issued months ago which was issued to Hudson Diamond 8 Holdings, LLC and for which Ms. Guo says she is -- and the 9 documents attached to the declarations establish, and 10 there's been no controversy raised in any pleadings, that 11 she is the managing member of Hudson Diamond Holding, LLC. 12 The entire subpoena is directed to the production 13 of documents and other communications of Hudson Diamond 14 Holdings, LLC, which is a broad scope subpoena as Rule 2004 15 of the bankruptcy rules allow.

16 investigation into the trustee's efforts to determine what 17 assets might be available in the bankruptcy estates to 18 satisfy the creditors of the three bankruptcy estates that 19 have been jointly consolidated -- administered, not 20 consolidated, excuse me -- administered under the Chapter 11 21 case of Mr. Ho Wan Kwok.

22 is a recipient of that subpoena.

23 controversy over that.

24 in pleadings. 25 And so your objection is overruled but noted for

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 14 the record. MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, thank you. I respect your ruling. As you know, I'm not counsel for Hudson Holding. I'm here as her criminal counsel. Her father has been indicated. She has been told that her -- through the U.S. Attorney's Office in the Southern District of New York, we learned that she's a subject of that same investigation. And as such, I'm going to instruct her not -- to invoke the fifth amendment and not answer the question. THE COURT: Okay. I understand, counsel. Thank you. MR. LUFT: Okay. I'll ask the same question. If she wants to invoke her fifth, she can. THE COURT: Well, Mr. Twardy, how do you want -- I mean, he's going to have to create his record, regardless. So I think she's going to -- if she's going to assert her right against self-incrimination, I think she's going to have to do it for every question he asks. Because he's going to -- he has the right to establish that record. MR. TWARDY: Understood, Your Honor. And that's fine. But I -- THE COURT: Okay. MR. TWARDY: -- am going to instruct her -- THE COURT: I understand. MR. TWARDY: Thank you. Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 14 of

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Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 15 THE COURT: I understand. So I don't know if your client understands that yet, though. So the interpreter -- you'll -- if you could explain -- if you could please state for the record what Mr. Twardy just stated. THE INTERPRETER: Your Honor, I already did a simultaneous interpretation to her -- THE COURT: Okay. THE INTERPRETER: -- just now during the conversation. Probably we can ask a question whether she understood what has transpired. THE COURT: Okay. So what Attorney Twardy is saying is that -- well, I think you're going to say -- and I'm going to ask you, unfortunately, again, because our record is audio, that if a question is asked and you're asking -- and you're instructing your client to assert her right against fifth amendment -- her fifth amendment privilege, then just if you would note that, and then the interpreter can tell her that, and then she can respond. Okay? THE WITNESS: So yes, Your Honor, but do I need answer anything? MR. TWARDY: Yes. If I might? Yes, she should answer. She should say I invoke my fifth amendment right. THE WITNESS: Thank you. I invoke my fifth amendment right.

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 16 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. Go ahead, Attorney Luft. MR. LUFT: Okay. Should I ask that question again or has she invoked it -- THE COURT: I think that question's been asked and answered, so I think you can move -- MR. LUFT: Okay. THE COURT: -- on to the next question. MR. LUFT: And move on to the next one. Okay. BY MR. LUFT: Q What are the assets of Hudson Diamond Holdings? THE COURT: Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry. We'll have the interpreter interpret the question, and then we'll take the answer. MR. TWARDY: I would instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment right. THE WITNESS: I will invoke my fifth amendment right. THE COURT: Thank you. MR. LUFT: Your Honor, if I may? I'd like to mark and introduce into evidence a copy of the subpoena we served to Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC. It has previously been marked in this case as Docket Number 1116-2 Exhibit C-37. And I'd -- if I could hand a copy to the witness. THE COURT: Well, make sure client -- Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 16 of

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 17 MR. LUFT: I will. THE COURT: -- counsel has no opposition to the introduction of the subpoena. I'm not sure why you would have any opposition, quite frankly, but in any event -- MR. LUFT: We have copies. They're welcome to look at -- MS. WERNICK: Yeah. No objection, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Then I think we'll mark that exhibit as -- because it's part of the record for today's hearing. So how do you want to mark that. Trustee's 1? MR. LUFT: Trustee 1 is fine, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. Trustee's 1. We'll mark that exhibit as a full exhibit. (Trustee's Exhibit 1 admitted) MR. LUFT: Okay. Your Honor, if I may hand this to the witness? THE COURT: You may. And I don't have it in front of me, but it looks like it has an exhibit cover from -- that doesn't say Trustee's 1 on it right now. But that is Exhibit Trustee's 1. Okay? All right. Thank you. THE WITNESS: Okay. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, feel free to take a minute to familiarize yourself with the document. Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 17 of

Yes, I'm done.

Ms. Guo, is this a copy of the subpoena that you told 3 me you reviewed earlier to Hudson Diamond Holdings?

I cannot clearly remember, but I believe it is.

Okay. Have you ever seen any other subpoena to Hudson 6 Diamond Holdings?

I don't remember.

Okay. I'll represent to you that this is a true and 9 accurate copy of the subpoena that was served on Hudson 10 Diamond Holdings. Okay?

Thank you.

Ms. Guo, if you could turn to page 7 under the category 13 Definitions. Do you see the first definitions of the word 14 "you, your, and yourself"?

15 to Hudson Diamond Holdings, Inc. together with all its 16 affiliates, divisions," and then goes on? 17 MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, if I might?

18 that counsel referred to Hudson Diamond Holding, Inc. as 19 opposed to LLC, but I heard the translator refer to LLC.

20 just want to make sure we had the right entity that was 21 being referred to. 22 MR. LUFT: If I said Inc., I misspoke, Your Honor. 23 THE COURT: Okay. So you were referring to LLC? 24 MR. LUFT: LLC. 25 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you.

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 19 MR. LUFT: I will not refer to Inc. today on purpose. THE COURT: Okay. THE WITNESS: Okay. BY MR. LUFT: Q So my question was, do you see that definition? A Yes, I see it. Q And you read that when you reviewed the subpoena, correct? A Yes. Q Okay. If I could ask you to turn to page 15. Do you see request 14 required Hudson Diamond Holdings to produce documents sufficient to show all its assets and sources of income or funding? A I see it. Q And you understood that was your obligation to produce documents responsive to that request, correct? A Correct. MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, just if I might, when you said your counsel, you meant Hudson Diamond Holdings, not her personal -- MR. LUFT: Your Honor, I'm lost at this point. MR. TWARDY: Just the question that was asked referred to her as opposed to -- MR. LUFT: Your Honor -- Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 19 of

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1 MR. TWARDY: -- as opposed to the company. 2 MR. LUFT: She's here in her corporate capacity. 3 She's the sole member of the entity.

4 this -- and she was ordered personally to appear on behalf 5 of Hudson Diamond Holdings.

6 he want me to refer to her as Hudson Diamond Holdings? 7 MR. TWARDY: Yes, please. 8 MR. LUFT: I mean, this is insane, Your Honor. 9 THE COURT:

10 MR. LUFT: A person is the sole member. 11 THE COURT:

12 will clarify for the record.

13 that you may not do it every time, but try to refer to 14 Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC. 15 I understand, Attorney Twardy, your concern.

16 Attorney Luft did ask the question about the definition 17 before he asked the -- the more specific question about 18 documents that were to be produced.

19 the definition right in front of me, but I heard the 20 question and I heard what Attorney Luft said the definition 21 of you, yours, and yourself is, and it referred to Hudson 22 Diamond Holdings, LLC, and its affiliates or related 23 affiliates. I don't know if the word "related" was in 24 there. 25 MR. LUFT: Nope.

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1 divisions, agencies, instrumentalities, departments, 2 officers, partners, officers again -- that's a typo -- 3 directors, agents, attorneys, representatives, employees, or 4 anyone acting on its behalf is the definition. 5 THE COURT:

6 appreciate your concern, I do think that he has established 7 through testimony that any question he's asking is in the -- 8 is Ms. Guo in her corporate capacity as the managing member. 9 And that's certainly the way the Court is viewing it.

10 don't know if that's helpful to you. 11 MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, it is.

12 to say I'm not trying to be difficult.

14 THE COURT: I understand. 15 MR. TWARDY: -- individual rights.

16 we all understand that if Mr. Luft uses the word "your," 17 it's referring to the definition of your that's contained in

19 THE COURT: That's correct. 20 MR. TWARDY:

21 THE COURT: That's correct. 22 MR. TWARDY: -- be jumping up and down. 23 THE COURT:

24 question about the definition on page 7.

1 MR. TWARDY: Yeah. 2 THE COURT:

3 based upon the fact that when this matter came before the 4 Court with regard to the production, it was always addressed 5 to the LLC.

6 through its managing member or people that are authorized 7 to. 8 So in any event, I understand your point, and I 9 think we've clarified that for the record.

10 continue. 11 MR. TWARDY: Thank you, Your Honor. 12 THE COURT: Thank you. 13 MR. LUFT: Okay. 14 BY MR. LUFT:

Ms. Guo, if you look at number -- request 15, you 16 understood you had to produce all documents showing all 17 assets that would -- identified in number 14 having a value 18 of more than \$50,000 and documents related to your 19 acquisition of such assets and communications with the 20 debtor and the debtor's family regarding such assets, 21 correct?

I see it.

And you understood from number 16 that you were 24 required to produce copies of your tax returns, correct?

Yes, I see it.

And you understood you were supposed to produce copies 2 of the tax returns that would be applicable to Hudson 3 Diamond Holdings, LLC, correct?

I do.

Okay. And from 17, you understood you're supposed to 6 produce documents sufficient to show all bank accounts and 7 investment accounts within Hudson Diamond Holdings' 8 possession or control, including the balance and transfers 9 to and from each such account, correct?

I see it.

And you understood you were supposed to produce those 12 documents, correct?

Yes.

And you understood already that for all these requests, 15 any request to Hudson Diamond Holdings included any 16 affiliates of Hudson Diamond Holdings, correct?

I understand.

Okay. Ms. Guo, you did not produce a single document 19 responsive to any of the requests I just mentioned, correct?

Correct.

And with regard to the 21 requests total, you only 22 produced two documents, correct?

Correct.

Okay.

25 created?

1 MR. TWARDY:

2 invoke her fifth amendment right. 3 THE WITNESS: I invoke my fifth amendment right. 4 BY MR. LUFT:

Ms. Guo, how did you become the sole member of Hudson 6 Diamond Holdings? 7 MR. TWARDY:

8 invoke her fifth amendment right. 9 BY MR. LUFT:

I will invoke my fifth amendment right.

Okay. Sorry. 13 THE INTERPRETER: Thank you, sir. 14 BY MR. LUFT:

Your father, the debtor, installed you as the nominal 16 named sole member of Hudson Diamond Holdings, correct? 17 MR. TWARDY:

18 client to invoke her fifth amendment right. 19 THE WITNESS:

20 right. 21 BY MR. LUFT:

In fact, Hudson Diamond Holdings was created at your 23 father's direction, wasn't it? 24 MR. TWARDY:

25 client to invoke her fifth amendment right.

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 25 THE WITNESS: I'll invoke my fifth amendment right. BY MR. LUFT: Q And at all times, your father has controlled Hudson Diamond Holdings, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment right. THE WITNESS: I will invoke my fifth amendment right. BY MR. LUFT: Q And your father at all times has also controlled Hudson Diamond New York, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment right. THE WITNESS: I will invoke my fifth amendment right. BY MR. LUFT: Q And all assets that were in Hudson Diamond New York were also the assets of your father, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to invoke -- I'm going to request that my client invoke her fifth amendment right. THE WITNESS: I invoke my fifth amendment right. BY MR. LUFT: Q And all bank all accounts in the name of Hudson Diamond Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 25 of

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 26 Holdings are actually accounts that are controlled by your father, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment right. THE WITNESS: I will invoke my fifth amendment right. BY MR. LUFT: Q And all bank accounts of Hudson Diamond New York are, in fact, bank accounts controlled by your father, the debtor, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment right. MS. WERNICK: We'd also like to just interpose an objection to the extent that questions regarding Hudson Diamond New York are beyond the scope of the direct presentation and understanding of what the show cause order is here for today. THE COURT: I overrule our objection. Go ahead. MR. DESPINS: Avi? Your Honor, can I have two seconds with my colleague? THE COURT: Yes. (Counsel confer) MR. LUFT: Your Honor, I'm prepared to resume. THE COURT: Go right ahead. Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 26 of

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 27 BY MR. LUFT: Q In fact, Hudson Diamond Holdings solely owns Hudson Diamond New York, correct? MR. TWARDY: I'm going to instruct -- Your Honor, with all due respect, I'm going to instruct my client invoke her fifth amendment right. THE WITNESS: I will invoke my fifth amendment right. (Counsel confer) BY MR. LUFT: Q Okay, Ms. Guo. You are the sole member of Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC, correct? A Correct. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Quick question. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Your Honor, if I might? Yep. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Oh, sorry. Go ahead. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No, no. You. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: So -- THE COURT: Wait a minute. Excuse me, sir. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'm the Czech interpreter. Sorry. I think the -- THE COURT: Wait a minute. You're the what? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'm the Czech interpreter. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Czech interpreter. Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 27 of

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 28 THE COURT: We haven't sworn you in or anything. I didn't know there was a Czech interpreter, number one. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Okay. THE COURT: Number two, you can't just stand up in the middle of a proceeding and start talking. Okay? That's not how it works. I'm not saying we can't work this out, but as you saw, we had to swear in the interpreter. If you're going to be a Czech interpreter, you need to be sworn in. You cannot just be here to do that. So I don't know who you are. I don't know what your name is. I don't know anything about you. And this -- we have to create a record. So has -- I have no idea. Has this been disclosed to the Chapter 11 Trustee that there'd be a Czech interpreter? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It was, Your Honor. We let the Chapter 11 Trustee know yesterday. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You told me you were going to bring an interpreter. I told you we already had one. That is not the same. Look, Your Honor -- THE COURT: We've done this before. Okay? This isn't the first time. So I don't know why this is a problem. We've done this before. We've had two interpreters at hearings in this case. And I'm not going to disrupt the proceedings when -- if you're not going to -- Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 28 of

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 29 MR. LUFT: Your Honor? THE COURT: So -- no. Hold on a second, Attorney Luft. So, Mr. Romney -- MR. ROMNEY: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: -- and possibly Ms. Wernick and Mr. Vartan -- I don't remember, but I think you have been here before when we've had two interpreters, haven't you? MR. ROMNEY: I have not, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. Well, someone from your office has. MR. ROMNEY: I -- THE COURT: Okay? And we're -- this doesn't make any sense to me that we're now in the middle of a proceeding where there's a question being asked and someone is standing up who's not a lawyer, hasn't filed an appearance, and hasn't been sworn in, is now disrupting this proceeding. MR. ROMNEY: Yes, Your Honor. I don't disagree with anything Your Honor just said. In my understanding was that if the Czech interpreter has an issue that he would advise counsel and have -- counsel would interpose, do investigation. THE COURT: Well, how about somebody advising the Court. Wouldn't that be appropriate? MR. ROMNEY: Well -- Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 29 of

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Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 30 THE COURT: That would be appropriate, wouldn't it, that the Court would understand what is going on? Because the Court is the person who has to make the decisions, not the lawyers, right? MR. ROMNEY: I understood. And what I'm explaining, Your Honor, is that I -- my understanding of how this procedure would transpire, and it's obviously on me for not conversing with our Czech interpreter, was that if he has an issue, he would advise counsel. Counsel would interpose an objection, and it would proceed from there. And that error is on me. THE COURT: Okay. Well, that -- I -- all right. MR. ROMNEY: And I apologize. THE COURT: I understand what you're saying. That didn't happen, though. MR. ROMNEY: That did not happen, and I take responsibility for it. THE COURT: Okay. So how are we proceeding then? In the manner that you just laid out that some -- that one of the three of you is going to jump up and object? MR. ROMNEY: No. I think -- Your Honor, if I may? Certainly we defer to the Court. But it would seem to me that the best way to proceed would be to have the Czech interpreter speak to Mr. Twardy, who is the one interposing objections, and Mr. Twardy would relay any issue to the

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 31 Court. THE COURT: Well, Mr. Twardy is only imposing objections as it relates to the witness's individual -- MR. ROMNEY: Understood. THE COURT: -- status. MR. ROMNEY: Understood. THE COURT: Not with regard to the corporate entity. Okay? So I -- Mr. Twardy is here to represent his client in the manner in which he described, which is that he has been informed -- I believe, Mr. Twardy, you said, but please correct me if I'm wrong -- that your client is a possible target of an -- of the investigation going on in the Southern District of New York. Is that what you said? MR. TWARDY: I said she's a subject, Your Honor, which is a little bit different -- THE COURT: Okay. Sorry. MR. TWARDY: -- in the nuance, but still, Your Honor, yes -- THE COURT: So she's -- so you -- MR. TWARDY: -- she's at -- she is at risk. THE COURT: She's at risk. And so he's here to protect her individual exposure. You're all here to protect the exposure of Hudson Diamond, LLC. That's who you represent. So that's how this is going to work. So Mr. Twardy is not going to get to interpose objections that Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 31 of

1 relate to Hudson Diamond, LLC. 2 MR. ROMNEY:

3 THE COURT:

4 objections that he believes impacts his -- the client's 5 individual rights in connection with the proceeding in the 6 Southern District of New York. 7 MR. ROMNEY: Understood, Your Honor.

8 the extent that the objection is based upon the fact that 9 the question was translated incorrectly to the witness who 10 is the person from whom the LLC is acting, I don't believe 11 it's possible to make -- to draw that distinction.

12 the objection is to the translation of the question that is 13 being presented to both the individual as well as the 14 entity. 15 From a practical perspective -- and my view and 16 understanding was that the least intrusive thing to do would 17 have only counsel assert objections, have the -- have 18 interpreter advise us, and for one of us to stand up and 19 assert that objection.

20 with our interpreter on that. 21 I actually, as we walked in, said if there are any 22 issues -- I used the words "please don't be shy."

23 that was inartful of me.

24 by those words -- and those are my exact words -- were to 25 tell me, and I will do something about it.

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 33 happened in court is on me for that reason. However, you know, however the Court would like -- to echo Attorney Vartan's statements, whether it's Attorney Wernick, Attorney Twardy, or myself -- THE COURT: Well, there's not going to be three different people -- MR. ROMNEY: No, no. And I -- THE COURT: -- interposing objections -- MR. ROMNEY: I understand that. THE COURT: -- on behalf of the entity. That's not going to happen. So you all three have to choose. MR. ROMNEY: No. THE COURT: And Attorney Wernick started by saying she was going to make the presentation today. So she should be interposing the objections -- MR. ROMNEY: And -- THE COURT: -- on behalf of the LLC. Okay? MR. ROMNEY: And I echo Attorney -- THE COURT: And then Attorney Twardy -- MR. ROMNEY: Yes. THE COURT: -- if he interposes objections, he will interpose it on behalf of his client's individual rights, to which Attorney Luft can say -- he can object as well. And then I'll have to rule. Okay? But that's how it's -- that's how we're going forward. All right? We're Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 33 of

1 not having someone talk on the record who's not a lawyer, 2 who hasn't been sworn in, and who doesn't have an appearance 3 and isn't bound by Rule 11. Okay? 4 MR. ROMNEY: Understood.

5 apology for that, because that is on me. 6 THE COURT: Okay.

7 proceed. Attorney Wernick's going to interpose objections 8 on behalf of the LLC.

9 objections on behalf of his client in her individual 10 capacity. If there's a overlap, then I'm sure Attorney Luft 11 will raise an objection, and then I'll have to make some 12 form of a ruling. Okay? 13 MR. ROMNEY: Thank you, Your Honor. 14 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. 15 MR. TWARDY:

16 one brief moment? 17 THE COURT: Yes, you may. 18 MR. TWARDY: I think it will help expedite things.

20 THE COURT: Do either of you need water?

21 water at the table. 22 THE WITNESS: I'm fine. 23 THE COURT: Okay. 24 THE WITNESS: Thank you, Your Honor. 25 THE COURT: Okay. Do you need one?

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Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 35 need one, right? THE INTERPRETER: I have mine. THE COURT: Okay. You have some? Okay. THE INTERPRETER: This is my dictionary -- THE COURT: Yeah. That's fine. If there -- yeah. I understand you're using that for your dictionary. That's fine. Thank you. MS. WERNICK: Your Honor, the objection on behalf of the entity, it's just a matter of translation, is that it's my understanding where Mr. Luft is using the word "holder," it's being translated as the word "owner," and we would just like the translation to reflect the question being posed. THE COURT: Okay. I have to say, I don't even recall the question at this point, so what was the question? I mean, you're saying -- MR. LUFT: (Indiscernible), Your Honor. THE COURT: You're using the word "owner." Is that what you said? MR. LUFT: I don't -- honestly don't know (indiscernible) -- THE COURT: Oh. THE INTERPRETER: Sole owner. MR. LUFT: Yeah. THE COURT: Well, why don't we just ask the

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 36 question again and see where we end up. How's that? MR. LUFT: Fine. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, you are the sole member of Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC, correct? A Yes. Q And Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC is the sole member of Hudson Diamond New York, right? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to -- oh, I'm sorry. THE COURT: Just hold on one second. MR. TWARDY: I -- THE COURT: Is there any objection with regard to the use of the word again or the translation? MS. WERNICK: So correct, Your Honor. And so, you know, this is beyond me certainly. But I understand that the word "member" that Mr. Luft used has been translated as holder, and that's the distinction that the translator would like to make. THE COURT: Okay. Hold on just one second then. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Sole member is a holder -- THE COURT: Let's see if we can accomplish something. THE INTERPRETER: It's a holding. Yeah. (Counsel confer) Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 36 of

1 THE COURT: All right.

2 the word is the same in Mandarin Chinese, a holder and 3 member are the same.

5 MS. WERNICK: Okay.

6 beyond my knowledge, but I understand that there's a word 7 for member in Mandarin Chinese that could be used. 8 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Which is what? 9 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible). 10 THE COURT:

11 to go further with regard to interpretation issues, then 12 we're going to have to swear in your interpreter.

13 all of the interpreter's name, address, qualifications, 14 everything. It's that -- I mean, we're going to do that if 15 that's going to continue. 16 But what's your suggestion, Attorney Luft? 17 MR. LUFT:

18 signed a sworn declaration in which she multiple times 19 refers to herself as the sole member.

20 is -- I think she probably did it in English, because I know 21 she speaks English.

22 was the word in Chinese I'm happy to use.

23 is her word, so I'm not making it up. 24 THE INTERPRETER:

25 THE COURT:

1 up. 2 MR. LUFT: Right.

3 what the word is.

4 this in English and understood it.

6 THE COURT: Well, why don't you ask that question. 7 THE INTERPRETER:

8 re-render her interpretation? 9 THE COURT: Sure. 10 THE WITNESS: Yes. 11 MR. LUFT: Okay.

12 anyway, so we resolve this. Can I have tab 11? 13 Your Honor, I'd like to show the witness a copy of 14 her declaration. 15 THE COURT: Go right ahead. 16 MR. LUFT: And may I approach? 17 THE COURT: Yes, you may. 18 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 19 BY MR. LUFT: 20 Q Ms. Guo, do you recognize this document? 21 A Yes, I can. 22 Q What is it? 23 A It's my declaration. 24 Q Who wrote it? 25 A It's a declaration.

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 39 Q Who wrote it? A My attorney drafted it with my speech. Q So you dictated to your attorney what you wanted in here? MS. WERNICK: And, Your Honor, I just object to the extent it implicates any attorney/client communication. THE COURT: Overruled. BY MR. LUFT: Q I need an answer. A Do I have to answer? Q Yes, unless your counsel is going to instruct you to take the fifth. MR. TWARDY: Go ahead. THE COURT: Attorney Twardy said go ahead and answer. THE WITNESS: Can you repeat the question, sir? BY MR. LUFT: Q Sure. I'm just trying to understand. So you dictated what you wanted in here to your attorney, and they wrote it down? A Yes. Q And which attorney did you do this with? MS. WERNICK: Again, Your Honor, I would object to the extent it implicates attorney/client communications. THE COURT: Overruled. Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 39 of

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1 BY MR. LUFT:

You can answer.

Two of my attorneys, Louisa and Lee. Melissa and Lee.

Melissa and Lee.

5 Mr. Vartan speak Mandarin?

They don't.

What language do you speak to them in?

English.

And when you signed your declaration, you reviewed 10 it -- this document in English?

Correct. 12 MR. LUFT: Okay.

13 this as Trustee Exhibit 2.

14 into evidence.

15 THE COURT:

16 into evidence, and I admitted it in full, because Attorney 17 Wernick said she had no objection to its admission. 18 Do you have any objection, Attorney Wernick, with 19 regard to the admission of the declaration as Trustee's 20 Exhibit 2? 21 MS. WERNICK: No, Your Honor.

22 know, we've admitted that as our direct, so. Right. 23 THE COURT: Thank you.

24 it, but it's fine. Now it's -- it's now Trustee's 2. Okay? 25 Thank you.

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 41 (Trustee's Exhibit 2 admitted) BY MR. LUFT: Q So I will try to ask my question again. I'm going to use the word "sole member" the way it was -- in it's English term and how it's used in the declaration. Okay? Ms. Guo, Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC is the sole member of Hudson Diamond New York, correct? MR. TWARDY: I am going to instruct, Your Honor, my client to invoke her fifth amendment right. THE WITNESS: I invoke my fifth amendment right. BY MR. LUFT: Q Okay. Ms. Guo, you have signed corporate documents on behalf of Hudson Diamond New York, correct? MR. TWARDY: I am going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment right. MS. WERNICK: And, Your Honor, on behalf of the entity, I would just repeat the objection along the line of questioning relating to Hudson Diamond New York. THE COURT: Meaning you think it's beyond the scope? MS. WERNICK: Yeah. Beyond the scope of this motion. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: I invoke my fifth amendment right. MR. LUFT: Your Honor, I'd like to show the Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 41 of

1 witness a document which I'll -- which is at Docket 1805-46. 2 It was Exhibit T to my declaration, and it's a copy of a 3 Hudson Diamond New York, LLC consent of sole member without 4 a meeting. May I show it to the witness? 5 THE COURT: Yes, you may. 6 BY MR. LUFT:

Ms. Guo, do you recognize this document? 8 MR. TWARDY:

9 to instruct my client to invoke the fifth amendment right. 10 THE WITNESS: I invoke my fifth amendment right. 11 MR. LUFT:

12 an objection to this.

13 this case where he spoke about talking to the witness about 14 this exact document and then offered testimony based on what 15 she represented to him.

16 issues when you want to and invoke your fifth when you want 17 to. I'm happy to pull up his -- Attorney Romney's 18 declaration if we want to look at it, but I know this is 19 there. I know is what they discussed. 20 THE COURT: What declaration?

21 not have seen it.

22 MR. LUFT:

23 THE COURT:

24 referring to. 25 MR. LUFT: Correct, Your Honor.

1 1988 filed on July 7, 2023.

2 Romney regarding motion for withdrawal of counsel for Hudson 3 Diamond New York, LLC. 4 THE COURT:

5 pull up that declaration for you to look?

6 right up so you can see it. 7 MR. LUFT:

8 one I was referencing. 9 MR. TWARDY: I will look over counsel's shoulder. 10 THE COURT: What is it again, Attorney Luft? 11 What's the ECF number? 12 MR. LUFT: It is 1988, Your Honor. 13 THE COURT: 1988?

14 paragraph? 15 MR. LUFT:

16 discusses this exhibit. 17 MR. TWARDY:

18 Your Honor has indicated, as counsel for Ms. Guo.

19 Mr. Romney did in some document is up to Mr. Luft to deal 20 with Mr. Romney.

21 invoke the fifth amendment rights. 22 MR. LUFT:

23 not acting in his -- was acting because he was seeking to 24 withdraw as counsel for Hudson Diamond New York in a matter 25 where he was retained by Hudson Diamond New York and Hudson

1 Diamond, LLC. I believe -- I'm assuming he's acting as an 2 attorney and as his agent. 3 To say that that's Mr. Romney's problem for me to 4 take up with him I don't think is appropriate.

5 put information to the Court about what Ms. Guo would say in 6 his declaration. That's how they chose to submit it.

7 don't think they can hide behind Mr. Romney now. 8 MR. TWARDY:

9 anybody. I'm just instructing her to invoke her fifth 10 amendment right. 11 MR. LUFT:

12 invoked that way, Your Honor. 13 THE COURT:

14 cannot is not something the Court is going to rule on today. 15 MR. LUFT: Fair enough, Your Honor. 16 THE COURT: Okay?

17 invoke the fifth amendment privilege against 18 self-incrimination. You'll just create your record. 19 MR. LUFT: Fair enough. 20 THE COURT: I think that's what you have to do. 21 MR. LUFT: Okay, Your Honor.

22 objection to the extent they are trying -- attempting to 23 invoke their fifth amendment rights on areas in which 24 they've already waived and disclosed the information. 25 THE COURT: I understand your objection.

1 MR. LUFT: Thank you, Your Honor. 2 THE COURT:

3 today. Mr. Twardy has instructed his client not to answer 4 the question. 5 MR. LUFT: I understand. 6 MR. TWARDY:

7 what they -- and Mr. Luft referred to they.

8 for Hudson Valley Holdings.

9 instructing her as herself to invoke the fifth amendment. 10 What they did I don't care about, with all due respect. 11 THE COURT: I understand that.

12 unfortunately, it does impact what goes on in this case as a 13 whole, Attorney Twardy. 14 MR. TWARDY: Understood. 15 THE COURT:

16 your statement, but there -- it may have different 17 ramifications for the case as a whole. 18 MR. TWARDY: Understood, Your Honor. Thank you. 19 MR. LUFT:

20 mark as Trustee Exhibit 3 into evidence? 21 THE COURT:

22 MR. LUFT:

24 THE COURT:

25 Romney's declaration.

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 46 MR. LUFT: No. It was attached to my declaration, Your Honor, originally as Exhibit T at Docket 1805-46. THE COURT: Was it also attached to Attorney Romney's declaration? Is it the same document? MR. LUFT: No. He just referenced -- he references -- THE COURT: He references. MR. LUFT: -- the document. THE COURT: Okay. But he did attach one document to his declaration. MR. LUFT: Correct, Your Honor. An email chain. THE COURT: Okay. MS. WERNICK: And, Your Honor, we would just interpose the same objection to that to the extent that that document relates to Hudson Diamond New York and not Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC, for which we're here for today. THE COURT: And I am going to overrule your objection again. The scope of the subpoena, as I've stated to Attorney Twardy, is extremely broad, and the definitions that your client, well, as Hudson Holdings representative has testified include Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC and its affiliates. So your objection is overruled. MS. WERNICK: Respectfully, Your Honor -- and I understand your ruling. But I don't know that there's been any showing that they are affiliated entities. Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 46 of

1 THE COURT:

2 support of his motion to withdraw supports that they're 3 related. 4 MS. WERNICK:

5 submission by Mr. Romney supports the fact that they are not 6 affiliated entities. 7 THE COURT: No.

8 he thought he was retained, but he wasn't.

9 that they're not affiliated.

10 MS. WERNICK:

11 THE COURT:

12 retained by someone of authority who had the authority to 13 retain him who didn't. That's what your affidavit says. 14 Isn't your motion to withdraw completely based on that, 15 Mr. Romney, that you believed that you were retained to act 16 on behalf of the New York entity, and then you found out 17 later that you didn't have -- that the person who retained 18 you didn't have authority to retain you on behalf of New 19 York -- the New York entity? Isn't that what it says? 20 MR. ROMNEY:

21 counsel of Hodgson Russ that based on their records, the 22 individual who had retained me on behalf of Hudson Diamond 23 New York, who I previously testified was Ms. Guo, did not 24 have the authority to retain me.

25 going -- I was moving to withdraw.

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1 I would just like to state for the record, so that 2 my silence is not perceived as acquiescence, since I'm 3 sitting in the room, is that this declaration was signed 4 under penalty by -- under penalty of perjury by me in 5 response to an order to show cause based on my motion to 6 withdraw. And it was based upon further -- following the 7 issuance of the order to show cause on my motion to 8 withdraw, there were a series of questions interposed to me 9 by Ms. Claiborn on behalf of the U.S. Trust (sic) Attorney's

11 THE COURT: U.S. Trustee's Office. 12 MR. ROMNEY: I apologize. 13 THE COURT: That's okay. 14 MR. ROMNEY: U.S. Trustee's Office.

15 Your Honor.

16 statement under penalty of perjury designed to -- 17 THE COURT: No, I understand.

18 MR. ROMNEY:

19 make -- so there's no -- I was filing this declaration on 20 behalf of Aaron Romney. 21 THE COURT: I understand. 22 MR. ROMNEY: Thank you, Your Honor. 23 THE COURT: Go ahead, Attorney Luft. 24 MR. LUFT: Thank you, Your Honor.

25 move Trustee Exhibit 3 into evidence.

1 THE COURT:

2 Exhibit 3 into evidence? 3 MS. WERNICK:

4 made on the record, again, that the exhibit relates to the 5 entity that's not the subject of this proceeding, and 6 there's been no demonstration it's related to the Hudson 7 Diamond Holdings entity. 8 THE COURT:

9 record of this case that those entities are related even 10 though there's documents that say that Hudson Diamond New 11 York, LLC owns Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC?

12 the other way around.

13 of this case, counsel. 14 MS. WERNICK:

15 THE COURT:

16 documents, there's no evidence that's been in this case that 17 establishes that there's a relationship between those two 18 parties, including documents filed with -- official 19 documents filed with secretary of states offices?

20 your argument? 21 MS. WERNICK:

22 referring to the communications reference in Mr. Romney's 23 declaration from Hodgson Russ indicating that there's not a

25 THE COURT:

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1 today. What's before the Court today is whether or not 2 there should be a contempt finding based upon the failure of 3 the party who was served with the subpoena to produce 4 documents. That's what's before the Court today.

5 documents that have been produced in this case establish 6 that there's a relationship between the two entities.

7 on the secretary of state's records. 8 So you -- you're going to make that argument that 9 it's beyond the scope of this subpoena? Okay. Overruled.

11 MS. WERNICK: Okay. 12 THE COURT: Go ahead, Mr. Luft. 13 BY MR. LUFT:

Ms. Guo, if you could look at Trustee Exhibit 3.

15 you see on the top it says, "Hudson Diamond New York, LLC 16 consent of sole member without a meeting"?

17 second page it says, "In witness whereof, this consent of 18 sole member without a meeting was executed on December 4,

And it says, "Hudson Diamond Holding, LLC by Mei Guo

Do you see that?

Yes.

And that's your signature there, correct?

Correct.

Okay.

25 Mr. Vartan to act as counsel for Hudson Diamond New York,

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 51 correct? THE INTERPRETER: Can I have the name of the counsel again? Sorry. MR. LUFT: Mr. Romney and Mr. Vartan. MR. TWARDY: And, Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment right. MR. LUFT: Your Honor, I'm going to renew my objection. We've had extensive discovery in this case and testimony regarding whether or not Ms. Guo retained Mr. Vartan and Mr. Romney. They made motions based on it. I understand he's -- but I'm just -- for my record. THE COURT: You're making your record. Go ahead. MR. TWARDY: I'm instructing to invoke your fifth amendment right. THE WITNESS: I invoke my fifth amendment right. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, did you ever tell Mr. Vartan and Mr. Romney that you were not the person -- that Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC, was not the sole member of Hudson Diamond New York? MS. WERNICK: Objection, Your Honor. He's directly asking for attorney/client communications. MR. LUFT: Your Honor, they made motions to withdraw -- THE COURT: It's not a privileged communication. Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 51 of

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 52 I am overrule -- overrule your objection. THE INTERPRETER: Can I have the question again, sir? MR. LUFT: Sure. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, did you ever tell Mr. Romney and Mr. Vartan that Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC was not the sole member of Hudson Diamond New York? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment right. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q Okay. Ms. Guo, you authorized bank accounts to be opened for Hudson Diamond New York, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment right. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q In fact, you opened those bank accounts at Capital One, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment right. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. MR. LUFT: Okay. Your Honor, I'd like to, at this point, show the witness a bank statement from Capital One Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 52 of

1 bank dated for the period of July 1, 2019, through July 31, 2 2019. There is a Bates stamp of Cap1Kwok0000049.

3 been marked confidential.

4 record, we should mark it that -- note that.

6 THE COURT: Okay.

7 looking at, so that's fine. 8 MR. LUFT: I understand, Your Honor. 9 THE COURT: That's fine.

10 document that's been produced during the discovery process 11 in these Chapter 11 cases to which the protective order 12 applies? 13 MR. LUFT: Yes, Your Honor. 14 THE COURT: Okay.

15 allows certain attorneys and parties to look at confidential 16 documents, correct? 17 MR. LUFT: Correct, Your Honor. 18 THE COURT:

19 and Romney and Vartan seen this document before? 20 MR. LUFT: I'm about to show it to them now. 21 THE COURT: They've never seen this document? 22 MR. LUFT:

23 otherwise. 24 THE COURT:

25 MR. LUFT: It's from their client's records.

1 THE COURT: -- not through the production process? 2 MR. LUFT:

3 beforehand. 4 THE COURT: Okay.

5 document through the production process? 6 MR. LUFT: I've never met Mr. Twardy before today. 7 THE COURT: Okay.

8 haven't given it to him. 9 MR. LUFT: Correct. 10 THE COURT: Let me think for a second now.

11 confidential. So we have to determine how -- but you have 12 to be able to show the lawyers the document and maintain its 13 confidentiality. 14 MR. LUFT: Right. 15 THE COURT: So how are we going to do that? 16 MR. LUFT:

17 Mr. Twardy has ever signed a protective order.

18 Mr. Vartan and Mr. Romney and Ms. Wernick have.

19 see it. 20 Again, Mr. Twardy, have you ever signed the 21 protective order? 22 MR. TWARDY: I have not. 23 MR. LUFT: We could give him a copy.

24 review it. 25 THE COURT:

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1 regard to this document is that -- and this and any other 2 document that might be confidential that you are planning on 3 examining the witness about, it may be that I have to have 4 an in-camera review of the document and the protective 5 order. Because there are strict provisions, Attorney 6 Twardy -- and I know you haven't been part of this -- about 7 the protective -- in the protective order with regard to 8 confidential documents.

And at this point, any party who has become a party to the protective order is entitled to see confidential documents. You obviously haven't become that, because you haven't been involved yet until today, essentially. So I have to figure -- I want to figure out the best way to proceed so that this does not become an issue in the future. That's the whole reason of having a protective order.

How many other documents do you have that might fall -- fit into this category that you are planning on questioning the witness about?

MR. LUFT: Let me check, Your Honor. I don't think it's -- it's the bank statements. They've kind of uniformly handed them to us with a confidential mark. THE COURT: Who's they? MR. LUFT: Capital One bank, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay.

1 MR. LUFT:

2 be the bulk of them, Your Honor.

3 but I think so.

4 appear to have. 5 THE COURT:

you can ask and we can address that -- these documents 7 at the end? Or if not, that's fine.

8 take a short recess and consider how to -- I haven't looked 9 at the protective order recently.

10 read the protective order, right? 11 MR. LUFT: That's totally fine, Your Honor.

12 move this to the end, but I would like to ask the witness 13 about the documents. 14 THE COURT: That's fine.

15 we'll come back to this area. 16 MR. LUFT: Okay. 17 THE COURT:

18 protective order. 19 MR. TWARDY:

20 her -- your deliberations, I will instruct -- I'm going to 21 instruct Ms. Guo to invoke her fifth as with regard to these 22 documents. 23 THE COURT: I understand. 24 MR. TWARDY: Okay. 25 THE COURT:

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 57 got to make that record. He's going to ask every question he wants to ask. And if she is -- invokes her fifth amendment, that's absolutely -- you know, she's entitled to do that. But he's also entitled to establish that record. MR. TWARDY: Yes, Your Honor. MR. LUFT: Okay, Attorney Luft. Please proceed. MR. LUFT: Okay. BY MR. LUFT: Q Let me see what I can do without the documents then. One moment. In fact, Ms. Guo, you signed -- you were one of the signatories for the Hudson Diamond New York bank account at Capital One, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. MR. LUFT: Give me one second. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, did you tell Mr. Romney that your name was not on that Hudson Diamond New York account at Capital One? MS. WERNICK: And, Your Honor, I'm going to object based on attorney/client privilege. THE COURT: And I'm going to overrule your objection again and note for the record that there were no formal objections filed by you with regard to any of the issues in the subpoena. So if you keep objecting, you can Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 57 of

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1 go ahead and object, but there was no objection raised 2 that -- with regard to the subpoena there's no protective 3 order, no motion to quash, no nothing.

4 issues and the evidence that was sought through that 5 subpoena. So I would like to note that for the record. 6 MS. WERNICK: Okay. 7 MR. ROMNEY:

8 and I know it's been a while, but the stipulation that was 9 entered into verbally in court between Attorney Luft and I 10 on behalf of our respective clients and then submitted in 11 writing and so ordered by the Court did specifically 12 preserve the right of the Hudson Diamond entities to assert 13 privilege. 14 THE COURT: Yeah. To assert privilege.

15 didn't object to any specific document requests that said it 16 went beyond the attorney/client privilege.

17 that. 18 MR. ROMNEY: No. Correct. 19 THE COURT: You didn't do that. 20 MR. ROMNEY:

21 phrased, not a document request. 22 MS. WERNICK: Correct. 23 MR. ROMNEY:

24 THE COURT: That's fine. I'm still overruling it. 25 MR. TWARDY:

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 59 client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, I'm going to reference Mr. Romney's July 7th declaration at paragraph 9. He writes -- I'll represent to you this is what it says: "Ms. Guo further advised me and Attorney Vartan that Capital One confirmed to her that New York previously had an account at Capital One but the account was closed and Capital One could not provide account statements to Ms. Guo, because her name was not on the account? THE INTERPRETER: Counsel, can I have the document? Oh, sorry. MR. LUFT: Sure. THE INTERPRETER: It's all right. (Counsel confer) THE INTERPRETER: Thank you. MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment right. MR. LUFT: I haven't even asked my question yet, Your Honor. MR. TWARDY: It sounded like one to me. I'm sorry. MR. LUFT: Well, I read the predicate. I didn't then -- I was -- I didn't get a chance to ask my question. Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 59 of

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 60 THE COURT: Go ahead and ask your question. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, is it true that you advised Mr. Vartan and Mr. Romney that you could not get the Capital One account because your name was not on that account? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. MR. LUFT: Your Honor -- THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. MR. LUFT: And for the record, I'll make my objection that clearly they've opened the door on this by making assertions based on that communication. THE COURT: Understood. MR. LUFT: Okay. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, sitting here today, is -- do you have any basis to assert that Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC is not the sole member of Hudson Diamond New York? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct her -- my client to invoke her fifth amendment right. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, did Mr. Romney or Mr. Vartan ever tell you that Kevin Kearney of Hodgson Russ told him -- told them that the documents indicate that Holdings was the member, Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 60 of

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Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 61 not your brother? MS. WERNICK: Your Honor, continuing objection based on attorney/client communications. THE COURT: Overruled. MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment right. MR. LUFT: For the record, we'll make our objection. You have to translate her answer. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. MR. TWARDY: Thank you. BY MR. LUFT: Q Okay. Ms. Guo, to respond to the subpoenas to Hudson Diamond New York and Hudson Diamond Holdings and the Court's order regarding you to appear for this, your brother never told you that he -- he's the member of Hudson Diamond New York, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment right. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, you never asked your brother which of you was the holder -- who was the member of Hudson Diamond New York, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 62 client to invoke her fifth amendment right. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q You've never inquired of your father as to who is the member of Hudson Diamond New York, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to tell my client to invoke her fifth amendment right. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q And you never sought to speak to Yvette Wang as to who was the member of Hudson Diamond New York, correct? THE INTERPRETER: Can I have the name again? Wang? MR. LUFT: Yvette Wang. THE INTERPRETER: Yvette Wang. Okay. MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment right. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, you never directed your counsel at Zeisler & Zeisler, who's also your father's counsel, to inquire of your father as to how the member of Hudson Diamond New York is, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 62 of

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1 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 2 BY MR. LUFT:

Ms. Guo, you had conversations with Attorney Romney 4 regarding a Rolls Royce held -- owned by Hudson Diamond New 5 York, correct? 6 MS. WERNICK: Objection, Your Honor.

7 is attorney/client communications. 8 THE COURT: Oh, go ahead.

9 respond to Attorney Wernick when you're done. Okay. 10 With regard to your objection, you have -- you 11 continue to assert attorney/client privilege objections. 12 And I'm looking at Ms. Guo's declaration that you put in as 13 direct testimony.

14 about specifically talking with you, Attorney Romney, and 15 Attorney Vartan about several things, including Capital One, 16 including you being with her when she made a phone call to 17 try to get Mr. Krasner.

18 about trying to attempt to contact Ms. Wang.

20 attorney/client privilege with regard to the issues that are 21 in her declaration, because she's already stated that she's 22 had these conversations with you and with Mr. Romney and 23 with Mr. Vartan. So I overrule your objection. 24 MS. WERNICK: All right.

25 Your Honor, I would just note that the direct question posed

1 to Ms. Guo is not addressed in her declaration, and I would

3 THE COURT: Well, but it is.

4 opened up the whole -- you've opened up the whole line of 5 inquiry by having a declaration submitted where she 6 testifies that she had conversations with you about all of 7 these things. And so -- and with response to the subpoena. 8 So I overrule your objection. 9 Go ahead, Attorney Luft. 10 MR. TWARDY:

11 tell my client to invoke the fifth amendment. 12 THE COURT: Go right ahead. 13 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 14 BY MR. LUFT:

And at the July 11, 2023, hearing, Mr. Romney told the 16 Court: "I did inquire about the Rolls-Royce with Ms. Guo." 17 Did that happen? 18 MR. TWARDY:

19 client to invoke her fifth amendment right. 20 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 21 MR. LUFT:

22 objection to the assertion of the fifth in this context 23 given the fact that they've already addressed this. 24 BY MR. LUFT:

Where is that Rolls-Royce now?

1 MR. TWARDY:

2 client to invoke her fifth amendment right. 3 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 4 BY MR. LUFT:

In fact, that Rolls-Royce is an asset of your father's 6 correct? 7 MR. TWARDY:

8 client to invoke her fifth amendment right. 9 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 10 BY MR. LUFT:

Hudson Diamond has also been involved in attempting to 12 purchase real estate, correct? Sorry.

13 York. I apologize. 14 MR. TWARDY:

15 client to invoke her fifth amendment right. 16 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 17 BY MR. LUFT:

In fact, Hudson Diamond New York was created at the 19 direction of your father to be a real property entity 20 intended to acquire real property, correct? 21 MR. TWARDY:

22 client to invoke her fifth amendment right. 23 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 24 BY MR. LUFT:

Hudson Diamond has sought to purchase multiple

1 properties over the past few years, correct? 2 THE INTERPRETER:

3 sir? 4 MR. LUFT: Hudson Diamond New York.

5 we'll ask both of them. 6 BY MR. LUFT:

Hudson Diamond New York? 8 MR. TWARDY:

9 client to invoke the fifth amendment right. 10 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 11 MR. LUFT:

12 mark as Trustee Exhibit 4 a document with the Bates stamp 13 GREE002323. It is a Caldwell Banker exclusive right to 14 represent the buyer form. May I show it to the witness? 15 And, Your Honor, may I approach and give one to the Court? 16 THE COURT:

17 objection to this document being admitted in full as 18 Trustee's Exhibit 4? 19 MS. WERNICK:

20 had an opportunity to view this document before, so we'll 21 take a look at it.

22 relates to. And as I said, we haven't seen it before. 23 THE COURT:

24 tell -- what -- it's a listing agreement between Caldwell 25 Banker and whom?

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Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 67 MR. LUFT: It's a real estate agreement between Hudson Diamond saying that Caldwell Banker -- THE COURT: Hudson Diamond who? MR. LUFT: It just says Hudson Diamond, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. And Caldwell Banker? MR. LUFT: Correct, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. MS. WERNICK: And so, again, Your Honor, looking at this document for the first time here, there's certain handwritten entries made in the document where we don't know where they're coming from. And, again, there's no specific entity name listed on the document. So we would object on this basis. THE COURT: I'll let you ask a few questions, and then I'll see whether or not it'll be admitted. Okay? MR. LUFT: Sure, Your Honor. THE COURT: Go right ahead. MR. LUFT: May I approach the witness and the bench? THE COURT: Yes, you may. THE INTERPRETER: Thank you. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, in your declaration you state that Ms. Wang handled the business and operations for Hudson Diamond

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 68 Holdings? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, if I might have a moment? Could you say which -- in which paragraph? MR. LUFT: Sure. MR. TWARDY: Thank you. MR. LUFT: I'm referring to paragraph 5 of her declaration where she says, "Yvette Wang and Max Krasner handled the business and affairs of Holding." MR. TWARDY: Does she have a -- if I might inquire of the Court? Does she have a copy? THE WITNESS: Yes, I do. MR. TWARDY: You may answer. THE INTERPRETER: Sorry? BY MR. LUFT: Q You can answer. A Can you please repeat your question, because I don't remember the question now. Q Sure. In your sworn declaration, you stated that Yvette Wang handled the business and affairs of Holding, correct? A Yvette Wang and Max Krasner. Q They both did? A Correct. Q Okay. If you could look at the document I provisionally marked as Trustee 4 that I handed you. Do you Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 68 of

1 see under buyer it says Hudson Diamond on the front page?

Yes.

Do you see on the back page under the signature it says 4 print name, Hudson Diamond?

I see it.

And that's the -- above it, it's the signature of 7 Ms. Yvette Wang, correct? 8 MR. TWARDY:

9 client to not -- invoke her fifth amendment right. 10 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 11 MR. LUFT:

12 for the same grounds. 13 THE COURT:

14 heard you, Attorney Luft.

15 say that again so it's clear that it's on the record, 16 please. 17 MR. LUFT: Of course, Your Honor.

18 on the same -- to the assertion of the fifth amendment on 19 the same grounds given that we believe they've opened the 20 door by asserting Ms. Wang's role with regard to Hudson 21 Diamond Holdings. 22 MR. TWARDY:

23 record? They, Hudson Diamond, cannot waive Ms. Guo's 24 personal fifth amendment right.

25 what they did, but she is not waiving her rights.

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 70 THE COURT: Understood. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo -- MR. LUFT: Well, why don't -- Your Honor, I'd ask to move to -- for admission of Trustee Exhibit 4. MS. WERNICK: And we have an ongoing objection. THE COURT: And what's your ongoing objection? MS. WERNICK: That there is no authentication of this record. THE COURT: Well, that's not an ongoing objection. You haven't made an objection about authentication yet, so that's not an ongoing objection. So then state your objection, and I will listen to it. MS. WERNICK: All right. So the document contains handwriting. Ms. Guo -- there's been no -- nothing to establish that Ms. Guo had anything to do with this document, has ever seen this document before. There's handwriting who we can't attribute it to, who the document is coming from. And, otherwise, there's no one with knowledge admitting this document. MR. LUFT: Your Honor? THE COURT: Would you like to respond, Attorney Luft? MR. LUFT: Sure, Your Honor. There is testimony that Ms. Wang acted on behalf of Hudson Diamond Holdings. Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 70 of Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 71 of

1 We have testimony that Hudson Diamond Holdings is owned by 2 Ms. Guo. And I specifically asked if the signature was 3 Ms. Wang's, if she knew the signature was Ms. Wang's, and 4 they have asserted the fifth.

5 assert the fifth, then they -- that's their right.

6 there -- they can't make an objection and say that I 7 can't -- I don't have evidence that she knows where the 8 signature comes from.

9 at that point, Your Honor, that it is what it says it is. 10 MS. WERNICK:

11 to -- I can't even tell what entity it relates to.

12 think there's anyone purporting or offering any -- there's 13 nothing that's been offered by Ms. (sic) Luft as to what 14 entity the document relates to or anything else regarding 15 its nature, how it came to be created, or who may have 16 signed the document. 17 MR. LUFT:

18 Hudson Diamond. Of course it says who it relates to. 19 MS. WERNICK:

20 MR. LUFT: It says it on the front and the back. 21 THE COURT: Hold on a minute, Attorney Wernick. 22 Go ahead, Mr. Luft. 23 MR. LUFT:

24 and under the signature name it's written Hudson Diamond. 25 So an argument that this -- we don't know what entity this

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 72 relates to, it relates to Hudson Diamond, Your Honor. THE COURT: Anything -- MS. WERNICK: As -- THE COURT: Anything further, counsel? MS. WERNICK: Yes, Your Honor. As far as I know, there's no entity -- certainly no entity subject to this specific proceeding -- that's known just simply Hudson Diamond. THE COURT: I'm going to overrule your objection. I'm going to admit it as Trustee's Exhibit 4. And I'll give it whatever weight I think is appropriate. (Trustee's Exhibit 4 admitted) MR. LUFT: Thank you, Your Honor. BY MR. LUFT: Q If you could look at Trustee 2, which is your declaration. Actually, you could put that aside for now. Hudson Diamond New York sought to purchase multiple properties over the past few years, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment right. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, where are the documents in connection with all those real estate transactions? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 72 of

1 client to invoke her fifth amendment right. 2 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 3 BY MR. LUFT:

And, Ms. Guo, all funding for Hudson Diamond's real 5 estate transactions came from your father, correct, the 6 debtor? 7 MR. TWARDY:

8 client to invoke her fifth amendment right. 9 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 10 BY MR. LUFT:

Ms. Guo, in fact, Hudson Diamond Holdings and Hudson 12 Diamond New York have no source of assets or funds other 13 than those under the -- coming from or under the control of 14 your father, the debtor, correct? 15 MS. WERNICK: I just object.

16 question. 17 MR. TWARDY:

18 THE COURT: Go ahead. 19 MR. TWARDY: I'm sorry.

20 instruct her to invoke her fifth amendment right, but I 21 don't want to preempt Your Honor. 22 THE COURT:

23 go right ahead. 24 MR. TWARDY: Okay.

25 instruct her to invoke the fifth amendment.

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 74 THE WITNESS: It's fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q Okay. Ms. Guo, if you could now take Trustee Exhibit 2, which is a copy of your declaration. You state that you are the records custodian for Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC, correct? MR. TWARDY: If I might just help her. If you would locate it, please. MR. LUFT: This is her declaration. It's the first line. MR. TWARDY: Okay. MR. LUFT: I assume some familiarity with the document. THE INTERPRETER: Counsel, can I have the question again? MR. LUFT: Sure. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, I'm looking at your introduction and paragraph 1 where you state that you are the records custodian for Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC. Do you see that? A I see it. Q Is that true? A Yes. Q Okay. What does the position of records custodian for Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 74 of

1 Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC entail?

I do not understand this question.

Okay. You stated that you are the records custodian 4 for Hudson Diamond Holdings (audio skip) as the record 5 custodian? 6 MR. TWARDY:

7 client to invoke her fifth amendment right. 8 MR. LUFT:

9 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 10 MR. LUFT:

11 objection that we've made previously that it is improper to 12 invoke the fifth amendment right when clearly she has put 13 the -- already put testimony on the record on this issue. 14 Okay? 15 BY MR. LUFT:

What actions have you taken as the record custodian for 17 Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC? 18 MS. WERNICK:

19 could ask a more specific question. 20 THE COURT: Overruled. The -- overruled.

21 question was fine. Either she can answer it or she can't. 22 That's not a basis for an objection, you'd like the question 23 to be asked a different way. That's a new one. 24 MS. WERNICK:

25 objecting that it was vague and ambiguous.

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 76 THE COURT: Your -- that's your interpretation of it, counsel. And you didn't say vague and -- you didn't say that. So I don't -- your objection is overruled. MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, might I ask the question be re-asked, as I've now lost what it was. MR. LUFT: If you'd like me to, Your Honor, I'll ask it again. THE COURT: Mr. Luft, yes. I wouldn't like you to, but I'm going to ask you to. MR. LUFT: Fair enough, Your Honor. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, what actions have you taken as the record custodian for Hudson Diamonds, LLC? MR. TWARDY: You can answer, because it's in your declaration. THE WITNESS: I do not quite understand this question. Are you asking specifically what do I do to these documents? BY MR. LUFT: Q No. I'm asking you what, if any, actions have you taken as the record custodian for Hudson Diamond, LLC. MS. WERNICK: Apologies, Your Honor. Could we just put time parameters on the question? THE COURT: No. Go ahead. She can answer that question. Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 76 of

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1 THE WITNESS:

2 mailbox -- my email box to search relevant documents. 3 BY MR. LUFT:

Have you ever taken any other actions as the record 5 custodian for Hudson Diamond, LLC? 6 MR. TWARDY:

7 instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights with 8 regard to that if counsel is asking for what she did beyond 9 what's set forth in her declaration. 10 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 11 MR. LUFT:

12 on the same grounds. 13 BY MR. LUFT:

What computer did you search? 15 MR. TWARDY:

16 client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. 17 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 18 MR. LUFT: Your Honor, I'll renew it.

19 literally just offered that testimony.

20 follow-up question. 21 BY MR. LUFT:

What accounts did you search?

Email account.

Which email account? 25 MR. TWARDY:

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 78 client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. MR. LUFT: Your Honor, I'll make the same objection. This is clearly just sword and shield at this point. BY MR. LUFT: Q Where is the -- where is that -- are those email accounts kept? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, is this a Hudson Diamond Holdings email -- specific email account? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, is it a Hudson Diamond New York specific account? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. MR. LUFT: Your Honor, I'm just going to ask for a standing objection at this point with -- on this topic with Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 78 of

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 79 regard to -- at least to this email account. Or I can renew -- do it each time. THE COURT: I think we need to do it each time, counsel. MR. LUFT: Fair enough, Your Honor. To this question and as to the last, I impose an objection as to improper assertion of the fifth amendment given that the witness is openly testifying on this topic when she thinks it's to her advantage. THE COURT: Well, I assume you're going to file some document after today that's going to point out all of these assertions, and then you can site to the law which talks about the improper -- which would -- law -- and there is case law in the bankruptcy court that talks about improper assertions of fifth amendment when specific questions are asked that have already been made the subject of testimony by the person who is invoking that privilege. And the Court will entertain that when and if it's filed. MR. LUFT: Thank you, Your Honor. I'll keep moving on then. BY MR. LUFT: Q When did you search your email account? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 79 of

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 80 MR. LUFT: Your Honor, I'll object on the same grounds I have been on this issue. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, upon Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC being served with the Rule 2004 subpoena in December of 2020, what did you do as the custodian of records to preserve Hudson Diamond Holdings' documents? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. MR. LUFT: Your Honor, same objection. BY MR. LUFT: Q In fact, Ms. Guo, you've never done anything to preserve Hudson Diamond Holdings documents in response to the Rule 2004 subpoena you've received from the trustee, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. MR. LUFT: Same objection, Your Honor. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, you've never gathered any documents from Ms. Wang in connection with her work with regard to Hudson Diamond Holdings and Hudson Diamond New York, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 80 of

1 client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. 2 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 3 MR. LUFT: Same objection. 4 BY MR. LUFT:

Ms. Guo, you've never done anything to make sure to 6 gather the documents of Mr. Krasner in connection with his 7 work for Hudson Diamond Holdings and Hudson Diamond New 8 York, correct? 9 THE INTERPRETER: Counsel, can I have the name? 10 Mr. Krasner? 11 MR. LUFT: Krasner correct. 12 THE INTERPRETER: Krasner. Okay. 13 MR. TWARDY:

14 client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. 15 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 16 BY MR. LUFT:

Ms. Guo, as a custodian of records for Hudson Diamond 18 Holdings, LLC, you've never done anything to make sure that 19 there was no spoliation of its or its affiliates' documents, 20 correct? 21 MR. TWARDY:

22 client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. 23 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 24 MR. LUFT: Same objection, Your Honor. 25 BY MR. LUFT:

Okay. Ms. Guo, in your declaration, you state that you 2 reviewed the trustee's Rule 2004 subpoena directed to Hudson 3 Diamond Holdings.

4 2004 subpoena directed to Hudson Diamond New York when you 5 retained Mr. Vartan and Mr. Romney to act as counsel for 6 both entities? 7 MS. WERNICK:

8 extent that the order that the Court entered directing the 9 submission of a declaration was specific as to Hudson 10 Diamond Holding, not Hudson Diamond New York. 11 THE COURT: Objection overruled. 12 MR. TWARDY:

13 client to invoke her fifth amendment. 14 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 15 MR. LUFT: Okay. We'll move on. 16 BY MR. LUFT:

Ms. Guo, you say that you -- in paragraph 3 that you've 18 reviewed Mr. Romney's July 7, 2023, declaration, correct?

Correct.

Okay. And you believe everything in there is true and 21 accurate?

Correct.

Mr. Romney stated that it's not your -- that you told 24 him that your name was not on the Capital One bank account. 25 Was that true and accurate?

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 83 MS. WERNICK: Objection. Attorney/client communication. THE COURT: That's overruled, counsel. Your client's declaration talks about Attorney Romney's declaration and that she reviewed it. So your objection is overruled. MS. WERNICK: And, Your Honor, I would just add that it also mischaracterizes the substance of Mr. Romney's declaration. THE COURT: What mischaracterizes? MS. WERNICK: The way that the question is framed to Ms. Guo. THE COURT: Overruled. MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, for that reason, I'm going to invoke the fifth -- ask my client to invoke the fifth amendment privilege. MR. LUFT: Sorry. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. MR. LUFT: Sorry. For what reason? MR. TWARDY: For the mischaracterization of the Romney affidavit. MR. LUFT: Okay. I don't want to be accused of mischaracterizing, so why don't we mark as Trustee Exhibit 5 a document that's previously been entered in the record. It's Document 1988. It's a copy of Mr. Romney's declaration Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 83 of

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 84 regarding motion to withdraw as counsel for Hudson Diamond New York, LLC. Your Honor, may I approach the witness? THE COURT: Yes, you may. MS. WERNICK: Thank you. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, have you ever seen this document before? A I have seen it before. Q Turn to paragraph 9. Do you see it says, last sentence, "Ms. Guo further advised me and Attorney Vartan that Capital One confirmed to her that New York previously had an account at Capital One but the account was closed, and Capital One could not provide account statements to Ms. Guo, because her name was not on the account." Do you see that? A I see it. Q And, Ms. Guo, is that truthful and accurate? A Correct. Q So it's your sworn testimony that it's truthful and accurate that Capital One told you that your name was not on the bank account for Hudson Diamond New York? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke the fifth amendment. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. MR. LUFT: I'm going to renew my objection, Your Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 84 of

1 Honor, on this issue.

2 this will once again -- I would like to revisit this when we 3 go back to the bank records. 4 THE COURT: I understand. 5 MR. LUFT: Thank you, Your Honor. 6 BY MR. LUFT: 7 Q Okay. Ms. Guo, you tried to contact Mr. Krasner in 8 connection with the subpoena? 9 A I did. 10 Q How did you do that? 11 A Mobile phone. 12 Q What phone number did you use? 13 A I don't remember. 14 Q How did you get the phone number? 15 A Phone number of whom? 16 Q Max Krasner. 17 A I don't remember. 18 Q You don't know how you got the phone number to call 19 Mr. Krasner? 20 A I don't remember. 21 Q Is it a phone number you've had for a long time? 22 A I don't remember. 23 Q Approximately when did you get Mr. Krasner's phone 24 number? 25 A I don't remember.

1 Q Was it in the last six months? 2 A More than six months. 3 Q More than a year? 4 A More than a year. 5 Q So for more than a year, you've had Mr. Krasner's phone 6 number? 7 A Correct. 8 Q Ms. Guo, do you remember I took your deposition 9 previously? 10 A I do. 11 Q Do you remember you were under oath? 12 A Yes. 13 Q And do you remember you swore to tell the truth, the 14 whole truth, and nothing but the truth? 15 A I remember. 16 MR. LUFT:

17 deposition transcript.

18 happy to hand one up to the Court. 19 THE COURT:

20 introduce -- you'll have to file all the documents anyway, 21 so it's fine. 22 MS. WERNICK:

23 object to this as being beyond the scope of this proceeding. 24 MR. LUFT: Your Honor, this is impeachment. 25 THE COURT: Objection overruled.

MR. LUFT: May I approach the witness? THE COURT: Yes. THE INTERPRETER: Thank you. BY MR. LUFT:

Ms. Guo, can you turn to page 146 of your deposition transcript?

January 20, 2023, correct?

I don't remember the specific dates.

Okay. If you want to look on the front page, this -- do you see it says Friday, January 20, 2023?

refresh your recollection that's when I took your deposition?

Okay. I see it.

Okay. I'm going to ask you to look at line 7 and line 8. Question: "Do you have Max Krasner's phone number?"

Did I read that correctly? MR. TWARDY:

to invoke the fifth amendment. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. MR. LUFT: Your Honor, I'm going to object. That's improper instruction on the fifth. THE COURT: I understand. BY MR. LUFT:

Ms. Guo, did you ever attempt to email Mr. Krasner?

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 88 MS. WERNICK: Objection. Vague and ambiguous. THE COURT: Overruled. MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke the fifth amendment. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. MR. LUFT: Same objection. BY MR. LUFT: Q Did you attempt to contact Mr. Krasner in any other way other than the telephone? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke the fifth amendment. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. MR. LUFT: Same objection. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, have you done anything to try to communicate -- contact Ms. Wang in connection with Hudson Diamond Holdings and Hudson Diamond New York, responding to the subpoenas that were served upon them by the rule -- by the trustee? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client not to -- or to invoke her fifth amendment rights with regard to Hudson Diamond New York. THE INTERPRETER: Can I have that again, counselor? MR. TWARDY: Yes. I'm instructing her to not Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 88 of

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1 answer the question with regard to Hudson Diamonds New York. 2 She can answer the question as regard to her attempts with 3 Ms. Wang for Hudson Diamond Holding. 4 THE COURT: Well, hold on a second. 5 I'm sorry. Go ahead. 6 So, Mr. Twardy, your objection is going to her 7 position as a corporate -- a person, not with regard to her 8 individual rights.

9 don't care about the entities.

10 care about the entities. 11 MR. TWARDY:

12 THE COURT:

13 appropriate. If you want to instruct her to answer not -- 14 because you're concerned about her individual prosecution, 15 that's a different situation.

16 the role that Attorney Wernick said she was going to take, 17 which was you've now made a line in the sand about corporate 18 entities which you've told the Court and everyone on several 19 occasions you don't care about.

20 it. 21 MR. TWARDY:

22 THE COURT:

23 MR. TWARDY:

24 regard to Ms. Guo.

25 she did with regard -- on behalf of Hudson Holdings as well.

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 90 THE COURT: That's right. And that's what the -- that's what this whole hearing is about. MR. TWARDY: Understood. And that's something I would let her answer. It's the question about what she did on behalf of Hudson New York I'm instructing her to invoke the fifth. THE INTERPRETER: Okay. MR. TWARDY: Does that -- THE COURT: I still think that you are -- you are now taking a position that's inconsistent with the position you've taken throughout this hearing, which is that you don't care about the entities. Ms. Wernick has been invoking -- has been objecting on the basis that it goes beyond the scope. And I've overruled all those objections. So now that I continue to overrule those objections, you're now making a different objection than you've made previously. Because now, I've been clear that I -- that the scope of this subpoena and the issues related to showing cause relate to the subpoena as a whole and the Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC. And we went through this at the beginning of the hearing where Mr. Luft asked your client a question about the definition, and your client answered it and said she understood it. And that included you, yours -- I can write -- I can look at my notes. MR. TWARDY: Yeah. Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 90 of

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 91 THE COURT: But the -- MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, if I -- THE COURT: But the point is, counsel, you can't take over their objections when their objections are being overruled, and they don't like the fact that they're being overruled by then asserting that she -- your client should take -- should be able to invoke her fifth amendment privilege, because -- as it relates to one of the corporate entities. MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I -- she has invoked her fifth amendment privilege with regard to any question concerning her role with Hudson Valley -- Hudson Diamond New York, because -- it's been consistent with that. I've allowed -- THE COURT: Well, you've also invoked her fifth amendment privilege with regard to anything that has to do with Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC. So now we're -- MR. TWARDY: What's -- THE COURT: Now we're getting into the position that I -- MR. TWARDY: Okay. THE COURT: -- I described at the beginning of this hearing that was problematic, which is so now the witness has a lawyer not only representing her in her capacity as a corporate member but in her individual Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 91 of

1 capacity who then gets to assert the privilege with regard 2 to corporate issues.

3 Attorney Twardy. 4 MR. TWARDY:

5 client to invoke the fifth amendment rights to the question 6 as a whole. 7 THE INTERPRETER: Sorry? 8 MR. LUFT: He instructed her to take the fifth. 9 You have to give her the instruction.

11 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 12 MR. LUFT:

13 Honor. 14 BY MR. LUFT:

Okay. What, if any, actions have you taken to try to 16 communicate with Ms. Wang in connection with the subpoena 17 Hudson Diamond Holdings received?

I cannot reach out to Ms. Wang, because she is in 19 detention center.

You communicate with people in detention currently, 21 don't you? 22 MR. TWARDY: Your Honor? 23 THE WITNESS: Who are you referring to? 24 MR. TWARDY: Your Honor?

25 instruct her to invoke her fifth amendment.

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 93 THE WITNESS: I answered your question. BY MR. LUFT: Q So, okay. I'll proceed then. You communicate with your father who's currently in prison, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q In fact, you post on social media most -- on social media repeatedly that you communicate with your father while he's in detention, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment. THE WITNESS: Yes. And thank you for your concern. BY MR. LUFT: Q Do you -- what steps have you taken to communicate with Ms. Wang with regard to Hudson Diamond Holdings' compliance with the subpoena that was served? MR. TWARDY: I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, in fact, you've never taken any steps to try to get information from Ms. Wang with regard to Hudson Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 93 of

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 94 Diamond Holdings' compliance with the trustee's subpoena despite the fact that you list her and Mr. Krasner as the people who operated the business, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q And that's because you know that Ms. Wang only takes instructions from your father, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q And you know that Mr. Krasner, in fact, only will take instruction from your father, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q And that's because Ms. Wang and Mr. Krasner are your father, the debtor's, agents, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 94 of

1 Q If we go back to Trustee Exhibit 2, which is your 2 declaration, if I look at paragraph 7 you said, "I also

Who is your accountant? 4 A Mindy. 5 Q Mindy? What is Mindy's whole name? 6 A I don't remember. 7 Q You don't know your accountant's whole name? 8 A I don't remember. 9 Q What's the name of her accounting firm? 10 A It started with J and something, but I don't remember 11 the whole name. 12 Q All you recall is that it literally starts with the 13 letter J? 14 A J-A and something. Janover? 15 Q Is it Janover? 16 A I don't remember. 17 Q Is it Janik? 18 A I do not remember. 19 Q It could be an accountant or a paint store.

20 know. 21 MR. LUFT: I'll withdraw that. 22 BY MR. LUFT: 23 Q How do you contact Mindy? 24 A I send her emails and call her by phone. 25 Q Okay. When you reached out to her as referenced in

1 your declaration, how did you contact Mindy? 2 A I have called her. I have also sent her emails. 3 Q What's her phone number? 4 A I don't remember. 5 Q Where do you keep her phone number? 6 A In my mobile phone. 7 Q Do you have your mobile phone here? 8 A No. 9 Q What type of phone is it? 10 A iPhone. 11 Q Smart phone? 12 A iPhone is a smart phone. 13 Q When did you start using an iPhone? 14 A In year 2008. 15 Q And you've used one consistently since then? 16 A No. 17 Q Okay. When did you start using this smart phone? 18 MR. TWARDY:

19 client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. 20 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 21 MR. LUFT:

22 supposed to be a blanket objection to anything they don't 23 want to answer. When did she start using her phone? 24 THE WITNESS: I have answered that question.

25 answer is I don't remember.

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 97 MR. TWARDY: And, Your Honor, just if I might for the record? There are issues that arise for the act of production that can be implicated here which is why I'm instructing her to invoke her fifth amendment. MR. LUFT: There's no act of production issue right now, Your Honor. MR. TWARDY: There could well be, and that's what I'm looking -- steps down the road. MR. LUFT: Well, you got to wait until we get there. MR. TWARDY: Well, that's why she's invoking it now. MR. LUFT: Your Honor, that's improper. So he's now saying that she wants to invoke her fifth amendment in case we ever get to an issue that involves -- MR. TWARDY: I don't -- MR. LUFT: -- a fifth amendment issue. MR. TWARDY: I don't care about you. I care about the U.S. Attorney's Office, with all due respect, Mr. Duff -- Luft. MR. LUFT: I don't care how you feel about me, but I'm trying to do an examination. THE COURT: I'm going to just stop -- MR. LUFT: Thank you, Your Honor. THE COURT: -- you both right there. Okay? Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 97 of

1 You're going to continue to make your record.

2 going to -- and you're going to do whatever you think is 3 appropriate with regard to this record. 4 MR. LUFT: Okay. 5 THE COURT:

6 that have been asked that relate directly to the direct 7 testimony of the witness in the declaration to which the 8 fifth amendment has been asserted when you've asked the 9 question. 10 MR. TWARDY:

11 break? Ms. Guo has been up there for two-and-a-half hours 12 almost at this point. 13 THE COURT:

14 Luft has. Do you want to take a break, or did you want to 15 continue? 16 MR. LUFT: No, Your Honor. I'd like to finish up. 17 I don't have much more.

18 before the -- when we get to the bank documents to give the 19 Court a chance to look at them, that would be fine. 20 THE COURT:

21 bank documents. So why don't you finish up what you can do 22 without the bank documents, and then we'll talk about the 23 bank documents. 24 BY MR. LUFT:

Ms. Guo, you said that you use an iPhone, correct?

Correct.

Have you been using an iPhone for the past two years? 3 MR. TWARDY:

4 client to invoke the fifth amendment for the reasons 5 previously stated. 6 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 7 MR. LUFT: Your Honor, I'm going to object. 8 Can I have tab 30? 9 Your Honor, I'd like to show the witness a copy of 10 the declaration of Lee Vartan in opposition to trustee's 11 order to show cause regarding compliance with Rule 2004 12 subpoenas and January 2023 order. It's at Docket 1512. 13 THE COURT: Okay. 14 MR. LUFT: May I approach the witness? 15 THE COURT: Yes, you may. 16 THE INTERPRETER: Thank you. 17 MR. TWARDY: Thanks. 18 BY MR. LUFT:

Ms. Guo, this is a copy of the declaration of your 20 counsel, Mr. Vartan, in opposition to the trustee's order to 21 show cause regarding compliance with the Rule 2004 subpoena 22 that was directed towards yourself and HK USA. 23 Specifically, I want to direct you to paragraph 25. 24 MS. WERNICK: And I would object.

25 now shown the witness a document that relates to other

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 100 entities outside of the Hudson Diamond entities that we're here for today. THE COURT: Objection overruled. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, do you see on paragraph 25 it cites -- Mr. Vartan writes, "After Ms. Guo was released from detention in early 2017, her relationship with technology was further changed. She stopped using a smart phone and communicated only by using a flip phone for fear of being tracked by the CCP." Do you see that? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke the fifth amendment. MR. LUFT: Your Honor, I -- Your Honor, my question is literally does she see that. This is an improper invocation of the fifth. MR. TWARDY: That she can answer. I'm sorry. I thought I heard something else, Mr. Luft. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, is it a true -- was Mr. Vartan truthful when he stated that you stopped using a smart phone and communicated only with a -- from a -- with a flip phone starting in early 2017 until the time of his declaration in January of 2023? MR. TWARDY: Now, Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke the fifth amendment. Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 100 of

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 101 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. MR. LUFT: Same objection, Your Honor. BY MR. LUFT: Q If I could ask you to look at paragraph 9 of Trustee Exhibit 2, which is a copy of your declaration. You write, "I reviewed my hard copy and electronic records." Which records are you referring to? A That refers to my emails. Q Anything else? A It was just the emails and also whatever documentations that I have at hand. Q Where do you keep -- well, when you say you -- whatever documentations you have at hand, what are you referring to? A It refers to any printed paper document that I have on my table. Q Which table? A My table. Q I don't want to be flip about this, but are you -- is it literally just any documents that happen to be at the table you're at, or do you have some type of file or system where you keep hard copy documents related to whatever business you're in? A It's the table that I kept documents. Q Okay. Where is the table that you keep documents located? Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 101 of

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1 MR. TWARDY:

2 here, but I heard her answer "kept documents," as in the 3 past tense, which is consistent with what's in the 4 affidavit. Mr. Luft's question was keep.

5 I -- you know, I just wish -- could you clarify your 6 question? Is it current or past tense? 7 MR. LUFT: Sure. 8 BY MR. LUFT:

Ms. Guo, did you destroy the documents you reference in 10 paragraph 9 when you say you reviewed your hard copy 11 documents? 12 MR. TWARDY:

13 to invoke the fifth amendment. 14 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 15 MR. LUFT: Same objection, Your Honor. 16 BY MR. LUFT:

How did you destroy the documents -- hard copy 18 documents that you kept that would have been responsive to 19 the subpoena? 20 MS. WERNICK: Objection. It's argumentative. 21 MR. LUFT:

22 it. It's not argumentative. 23 THE COURT: Overruled. 24 MR. TWARDY:

25 client to invoke the fifth amendment.

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Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 103 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q In fact, Ms. Guo, you destroyed those documents at the direction of your father, the debtor, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. MR. LUFT: Your Honor, if you want to take a break, this might be the time where I can figure out if there's anything else other than the bank documents. And then we can -- I can share those with the Court. THE COURT: I'm not in need of a break, but if you want to break so that you can determine how you want to proceed with the documents that are subject to the protective order, that's fine. MR. LUFT: That's what I want to figure out, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. How much time do you need? Fifteen minutes? Twenty minutes? MR. LUFT: Well, I know Your Honor had indicated that you wanted a chance to review them as well, so -- THE COURT: Well, I believe I'm going to have to review them at some point depending upon what occurs. So I'd like the parties to have a discussion about this issue for the next 20 minutes. And we'll come back at 4:50, and

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1 we'll see how we're going to proceed. Okay? 2 MR. LUFT: That works, Your Honor. 3 THE COURT: All right. 4 MR. TWARDY: Your Honor? 5 THE COURT: Court is in recess until 4:50. 6 MR. DESPINS:

7 admonition that you give to witnesses? 8 THE COURT: Yes.

9 interpreter. 10 Would you please remind the witness that she is 11 under oath and she remains under oath during this time that 12 we're on break. Okay? 13 THE WITNESS: Thank you, Your Honor. 14 MR. LUFT: Thank you, Your Honor. 15 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: All rise.

16 recess until 4:50. 17 (Court recessed from 4:30 p.m. to 4:58 p.m.) 18 THE COURT: All right.

19 recess, and I asked you to -- and the parties to speak about 20 the portion of your examination where you had indicated 21 you're going to ask some questions about documents that have 22 been marked confidential. 23 MR. LUFT: Yes, Your Honor. 24 THE COURT:

25 report about those discussions?

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Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 105 MR. LUFT: Yes, Your Honor. My understanding is that Ms. Guo's criminal counsel has reviewed the protective order, has agreed to be bound by it, and he's going to make a statement on the record reflecting that we don't have a hard copy here right now. But I'm -- that's more than adequate to me that if he makes a statement on the record that he's willing to be bound by it. At which point I have shared the documents I'm considering using with counsel for Hudson Diamond Holdings. Once he makes that statement on the record, they will share it with him as well. MR. LUFT: Okay. MR. LUFT: And then I think -- THE COURT: That's fine. Thank you. MR. LUFT: -- Your Honor, we can move ahead. MR. TWARDY: And, Your Honor, yes, I will be bound by the confidentiality order that's been entered here. THE COURT: Thank you, Attorney Twardy. Just so you know, it's called a protective order. MR. TWARDY: Protective order. I'm sorry. I -- THE COURT: That's all right. And it's -- it -- the document number is 923. And it was entered in this case on -- in these Chapter 11 cases on October 6, 2022. Okay? MR. TWARDY: Yes. Attorney Linsey sent me -- emailed me a copy of it, and I had a chance to look at it, Your Honor, during the break.

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Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 106 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. MR. TWARDY: Yeah. Thank you, Attorney Linsey. THE COURT: All right. And you've showed the documents that you're going to ask questions about to Ms. Wernick and Attorney Romney and Attorney Vartan, and now they're going to share them with Attorney Twardy. Is that how you anticipate this will proceed? MR. LUFT: Yes, Your Honor. They have copies of the three documents I intend to reference -- THE COURT: Okay. MR. LUFT: -- at this point. THE COURT: Then please proceed. MR. LUFT: Thank you, Your Honor. MR. ROMNEY: One moment, Your -- (Counsel confer) MR. ROMNEY: Your Honor, if I may? I believe, given that we have a public going on, if we're going to be discussing documents subject to the privilege -- subject -- THE COURT: I can't hear you at all, Attorney Romney. You have to speak into the microphone. MR. ROMNEY: Very sorry, Your Honor. THE COURT: That's okay. MR. ROMNEY: What I was attempting to say is, given that we're about to be going over documents covered by

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Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 107 the protective order, presumably these documents will be submitted under seal, I would ask that we clear the courtroom to the extent there are people here that are not parties to the protective order. THE COURT: We're going to be asking questions specifically about the confidential nature of the documents? MR. LUFT: I don't believe so, Your Honor, but

I -- they -- look, many parties in this case have, as a de facto thing, stamped confidential on everything they send to us. I don't think that there's anything more confidential about what we're looking at than anything else we've been talking about today, Your Honor, but that's where we are.

MR. ROMNEY: For the record, these are not documents that Hudson Diamond Holdings has -- or New York has stamped confidential. We've never seen these documents before today. My, I guess, sort of just point was, given that we were not permitted to share them with Attorney Twardy until he put on the record that he was being subject to it, presumably that should operate for everyone else in the courtroom to the extent that we're getting into the substance of the documents.

I have no idea what Attorney Luft is going to be asking, so to the extent he's not getting into the substance of the documents, I suppose that's not necessary. But I was just trying to protect the process, Your Honor. That's --

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Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 108 THE COURT: Understood. Attorney Luft, what are you planning on doing? MR. LUFT: Your Honor, I do plan to ask about the contents of the documents. I believe they are of a piece with other questions I have been asking for the past few hours. They are, you know, bank documents. I assume to the extent that there is -- they asserted confidentiality it is because -- you know what? I don't even want to make an assumption. I would guess it was for their client as a matter of course. But I'm not in their head, Your Honor. I will ask about the contents. I don't know if that information is confidential. As I said, I've been asking questions about Hudson Diamond Holdings' bank accounts for a while. And, quite frankly, the answer to -- has been an assertion of the fifth amendment to -- invariably. And I will not be surprised if that's the way we continue. But that's what I plan to do, Your Honor. I don't have an opinion as to whether the Court needs to be cleared. THE COURT: All right. Thank you. I'm just taking a look at this for a moment. (Pause) THE COURT: So I'm looking at paragraphs -- well, I'm looking at a number of paragraphs, but the paragraph I'm

1 looking at at the moment in the protective order is 2 paragraph 14, use of discovery materials in open court.

3 says, "The limitations on disclosure in this order shall not 4 apply to any discovery materials offered or otherwise used 5 by any party at a trial or any hearing held in open court 6 except as provided in this paragraph.

7 as part of any pretrial conference or any meet and confer 8 regarding the use of exhibits in any evidentiary hearing or, 9 if not practicable, prior to the use of any designated 10 material at trial or any hearing to be held in open court, 11 counsel for any party who desires to offer or use such 12 designated material at trial, at hearing to be held in open 13 court shall meet and confer in good faith with the producing 14 party" -- so I don't know who produced this document to you, 15 but anyway -- "to discuss ways to redact the designated 16 material so that the material may be offered or otherwise

Bankruptcy Code and Bankruptcy Rules. If the parties aren't able to resolve a dispute related to such designated material, the producing party shall bear the burden of requesting appropriate relief from the court. Until the court rules on such an issue, the designated materials shall continue to be treated according to its designation and in accordance with the terms of this order."

used by any party in accordance with the provisions of the

So is there any ability to redact this document?

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1 MR. LUFT:

2 on me, I don't know if -- I mean, I could redact what I 3 don't care about, but I don't know if that would address the 4 confidentiality issue.

5 the entity that produced the documents, right?

6 did it on behalf of -- presumably on behalf of Hudson 7 Diamond New York. 8 We have this circle here where no one is willing 9 to say that they are Hudson Diamond New York.

10 here is willing to speak on behalf of Hudson Diamond New 11 York, we can figure out how to redact the document. 12 Otherwise, Your Honor, I can't tell you how it's supposed to 13 be redacted no behalf of Hudson Diamond New York or Capital 14 One. 15 So and I didn't have a chance to speak with 16 Capital One bank about this. I apologize for that.

18 MR. LUFT:

19 you, but Trustee Despins had a suggestion which I'm happy to 20 share with the Court. 21 THE COURT: Go right ahead. 22 MR. LUFT:

23 is that I would not be shocked if I heard an assertion of 24 the fifth amendment to the questions I'm going to ask given 25 the way the rest of the day has gone.

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 111 not -- I think there's a realistic possibility that we may never have to confront that issue. And I can try to -- I have to make some reference to the document to direct the witness in my questions, but the idea of redacting, I can try to be -- you know, not be overt about the contents if possible. I mean, again, I can't guess as to what they're going to do, but -- MR. TWARDY: No, you guessed right. Your Honor, again, I've just seen these literally within the last five minutes. But I will be instructing my client to invoke the fifth amendment. Is there a way this can be done so the documents are filed under seal and just a -- you know, marked into evidence and, you know, then just verify what's on there, do it that way? MR. LUFT: I have to ask your client questions about it, but -- THE COURT: Well, to answer your question, Attorney Twardy, yes, these documents can be filed under seal. That's the -- that's easy. I mean, insofar as the protective order already anticipates that in some respect. And these documents are -- been marked as highly confidential. So then the issue becomes what questions are you going to ask. And I'm not asking you to tell me, right? Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 111 of

1 That's not what I'm doing. 2 MR. LUFT: Sure, Your Honor. 3 THE COURT: I'm talking about the issue. Okay? 4 What questions are you asking, and what questions are -- and 5 what information will be revealed in those questions. 6 If you're asking questions about the existence or 7 recognition of a document, that's one thing, I think. 8 Because the documents will be filed under seal.

9 you're asking questions specifically about what's contained 10 in the documents, then we might have to figure -- you know, 11 we're going to have to figure out how to deal with that. 12 MR. LUFT: That's fair, Your Honor.

13 ask more than just recognition of the documents.

14 said, I can try to be discrete in terms of referring to 15 entity on this line, do you see the amount of money 16 referenced here, something like that as opposed to stating 17 what the amount of money is. 18 THE COURT:

19 the very least, right?

20 MR. LUFT:

21 THE COURT:

22 confidential information. 23 MR. LUFT: Right.

25 THE COURT: Well, let me ask Attorney Twardy.

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1 you -- let's just make an assumption here that I would grant 2 a motion to seal these documents.

3 these -- that these documents be introduced in any way, 4 shape, or form as part of a motion to seal? 5 MR. TWARDY: Not at all, Your Honor. 6 THE COURT: Okay. 7 MR. TWARDY: This is all part of their case. 8 THE COURT: Okay. 9 MR. TWARDY: And they can do what they want.

10 don't know about counsel for Hudson, but I don't have a 11 problem with it. 12 THE COURT: Well, we're talking about -- okay. 13 That's fair. So, so far we have an agreement with Ms. Guo's 14 criminal counsel that he's not going to oppose a motion to 15 seal, right, so that these documents would be under seal. 16 Attorney Wernick, you have an opposition to these 17 documents being filed under seal? 18 MS. WERNICK: Not being filed under seal. 19 THE COURT: So you have no opposition, correct? 20 MR. LUFT:

21 seal, correct. 22 THE COURT: Okay.

23 problem, which is this, the documents will be filed under 24 seal unless and until they're no longer sealed because of 25 the protective order provisions.

1 been in place since October of 2022.

2 makes it a little simpler. 3 Now we get to what are your questions.

4 your questions do anything to -- if you want to -- if you 5 would like to ask questions about specific information that 6 is not just being read or acknowledged, then I think we have 7 an issue. I understand that Attorney Twardy has already 8 said he's going to ask -- instruct his client to invoke the 9 fifth amendment, which is absolutely fine.

10 have the right to ask those questions to have her invoke the 11 fifth amendment. So that's not a problem either. 12 So I think you have to decide -- and if you want 13 to take a few minutes, you know, I don't have a problem with 14 that -- how you want to ask -- or formulate those questions 15 in order to avoid any issues.

16 that. But I also can have you proceed based -- however you 17 want to proceed at this point. 18 MR. LUFT: Thank you, Your Honor.

19 to push ahead at this point.

20 need to ask the questions that I need to ask. 21 THE COURT: All right.

22 sorry. When you're done, I just want to say something 23 before you start asking any questions. Okay? 24 MR. LUFT: Of course, Your Honor.

25 so we're all level set, I have a couple questions before we

THE COURT: Okay. MR. LUFT: -- that involve this.

make sure this is done right.

the courtroom, but if that's the right thing to do at this point, Your Honor, to make sure that we can get a clear record and everyone can -- especially with the language barrier, that everyone can follow my questions, then we should just do that. Otherwise, I know how to ask questions to leave out specifics.

confusing record, then I think the better part of valor is to just move ahead and let us ask the questions with the room sealed.

minutes' worth of questioning on that. THE COURT:

you would like everyone else to leave the room who's not -- to leave the courtroom who's not subject to the protective order. Is that what you're saying? MR. LUFT:

that we can get a clear record and have a -- THE COURT: All right. Well, we're not there yet. MR. LUFT: Okay. THE COURT:

when we're there.

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1 MR. LUFT: Okay. 2 THE COURT:

3 MR. LUFT: I will -- yes. 4 THE COURT:

5 seal apparently three documents? 6 MR. LUFT: Yes, Your Honor. 7 THE COURT: Okay.

8 obviously. There's no opposition from corporate counsel or 9 from individual counsel to that motion to seal.

10 under -- after looking again at the protective order, which 11 I did when we were on -- when we took a recess, I think 12 that's the appropriate way to proceed with regard to these 13 documents. 14 So the motion to seal is going to be granted.

15 obviously have to -- you've made an oral motion.

16 an order with regard to that.

17 to have to be filed under seal. 18 You understand that.

19 that. But I'm just making the record.

20 MR. LUFT: Thank you, Your Honor. 21 THE COURT:

22 hearing, you're going to file those documents under seal. 23 MR. LUFT: Yes, Your Honor. 24 THE COURT: Okay?

25 where you're going to ask questions about the documents,

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1 even if the witness is instructed to assert the fifth 2 amendment privilege, we will have to close the courtroom and 3 seal that part of the hearing, which will remain under seal 4 until further order of the Court in order to protect the 5 integrity of the protective order and the process that's 6 been in place in this case for quite some time. Okay? 7 MR. LUFT: Thank you, Your Honor. 8 THE COURT:

9 you have any questions about what I just said? 10 MS. WERNICK: No.

11 THE COURT: Okay. 12 MS. WERNICK: -- the procedure, Your Honor. 13 THE COURT: Say that again. 14 MS. WERNICK:

15 Honor. 16 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. 17 Attorney Twardy? 18 MR. TWARDY: Yes, Your Honor. 19 THE COURT: That's fine with you? 20 MR. TWARDY: Yes, Your Honor. 21 THE COURT: Okay. Fine. 22 All right.

23 Luft. 24 MR. LUFT: Thank you, Your Honor.

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 118 BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, I wanted to clarify. Earlier I had asked you if you had your iPhone on you. Do you recall that? A I remember. Q Did you bring your iPhone with you to the courthouse today? A No. Q Is anyone who is working for you holding your iPhone today? A No. Q Okay. Ms. Guo, has Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC transferred money to HK USA? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke the fifth amendment. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. MR. LUFT: Same objection, Your Honor. BY MR. LUFT: Q Did -- THE COURT: Just state that -- I'm so sorry to make you do it, but remember -- MR. LUFT: Of course. THE COURT: -- we only have audio. MR. LUFT: No, that's fair, Your Honor. THE COURT: And I don't want to hear some transcript -- because you know what's going to happen. Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 118 of

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 119 We're going to have a transcript, and there's going to be holes in it. So -- MR. LUFT: Absolutely. THE COURT: So I'm -- I know that I understand you're making that same objection, but the transcriber is not going to. MR. LUFT: Your Honor, my objection is to the assertion of the fifth amendment to the extent I believe that the witness has opened up these issues both in her declaration as well as statements that her counsel has made to this court in connection with this ongoing contempt proceeding and the motion to compel that came before it. THE COURT: Thank you. MR. LUFT: Okay. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, did Hudson Diamond New York transfer money to HK USA? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke the fifth amendment. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q And did Hudson Diamond pay for the expenses of the Lady May? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to ask my client to invoke the fifth amendment, please. Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 119 of

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Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 120 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q And did -- was Hudson Diamond paying the expenses for the Lady May in 2023? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to request my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q And has Hudson Diamond New York been paying the expenses for the Lady May? MS. WERNICK: And, Your Honor, I'm going to object ono the basis of relevance. THE COURT: Overruled. MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to request my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q And has Hudson Diamond New York's payment of expenses for the Lady May been done at the direction of your father, the debtor? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to instruct my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q And, Ms. Guo, who was the owner of the Lady May on

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 121 March 1, 2023? MS. WERNICK: Your Honor, objection again to the extent that this is far beyond the scope of the direct testimony and the nature of the proceeding today. THE COURT: Overruled. MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to request my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q Okay. Ms. Guo, does Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC pay for the expenses in connection with the Bombardier jet that is the subject of the adversary proceeding against you? MS. WERNICK: Your Honor, same objection as to relevance. THE COURT: Overruled. MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to request my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights as -- THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q And the actual owner of that Bombardier jet is, in fact, your father, the debtor, correct? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to request my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 121 of

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 122 Q Ms. Guo, does Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC send money to Whitecroft? MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to request my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q And Hudson Diamond New York sends money to Whitecroft, correct? MS. WERNICK: Your Honor, same objection. Continue objection as to relevance. THE COURT: Overruled. MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I'm going to request my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Q Ms. Guo, where are the documents related to the funds Hudson Diamond has transferred to entities associated with your father and your family? MS. WERNICK: Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence. THE COURT: Overruled. MR. TWARDY: Your Honor, I would request my client to invoke her fifth amendment rights. THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. BY MR. LUFT: Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 122 of

And who controls Whitecroft, you or your father? 2 MS. WERNICK: Objection, Your Honor.

3 separate adversary proceeding relating to Whitecroft.

4 is really getting very far beyond the scope of the order to 5 show cause and the -- Ms. Guo's direct testimony today. 6 THE COURT:

7 when she testified in her declaration that she's the sole 8 managing member and -- of Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC and 9 that she operates that business?

10 scope?

11 MS. WERNICK:

12 THE COURT:

13 answer, but that doesn't mean it's beyond the scope. 14 MS. WERNICK:

15 heard it related solely to the entity Whitecroft. 16 THE COURT: I heard it too.

17 that's beyond the scope of a Rule 2004 examination and the 18 subpoena that requested certain information.

19 overrule your objection. 20 MR. TWARDY:

21 her fifth amendment rights. 22 THE WITNESS: Fifth amendment. 23 MR. LUFT: Okay.

24 that point where we need to seal the courtroom. 25 THE COURT: All right.

to talk to the translator in a sec. Go ahead.

you might not understand at this point, which is the only people that can stay in this courtroom are the lawyers -- right now for certain questioning -- the lawyers who are bound by the protective order and then the court staff.

you have to be bound by that confidentiality.

to acknowledge that you'll be bound by that confidentiality. So could you just do that for me, please?

it's important.

requires this -- until there's an order otherwise that this information would be -- would remain confidential.

need you to just acknowledge on the record that you will -- any information or questioning that is occurring when this hearing is sealed that you will be bound by that

THE INTERPRETER: Yes. THE COURT: -- confidentiality. THE INTERPRETER: Yes, I do, Your Honor.

also, the interpreter abide by the general confidentiality rules for the court. THE COURT: Thank you. THE INTERPRETER: Thank you. THE COURT: I appreciate that. Now, what we're going to have to do, everyone

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 125 who's in the courtroom who's not a lawyer that's bound by the protective order or a party bound by the protective order, is you're going to have to leave the courtroom. We're going to have a sealed hearing. Which, Mr. Luft, I think you've said you think -- well, I -- we don't know, but we think this isn't going to take substantial amount of time. MR. LUFT: No. THE COURT: And we also think that Mr. Twardy is going to instruct his client to invoke the fifth amendment privilege at certain points as well. Once the hearing is -- once the sealed portion of the hearing is over, then someone's going to have to go out to the people -- I'm going to -- well, I guess I'll ask staff or someone to go out to the people that they can come back in. There will be a continued public hearing at that point. Okay? Does everyone understand that? Okay. MR. LUFT: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. I'm looking in the courtroom, and it appears to me that everyone who's in this courtroom is bound by the protective order. If someone thinks otherwise, I need you to state that for the record immediately, please, so that it's clear. MS. CLAIBORN: Your Honor, Holley Claiborn for the U.S. Trustee. To be technical, the U.S. Trustee is not a Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 125 of

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Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 126 party to the confidentiality order. We have not signed the confidentiality order. But pursuant to Section 107 of the Bankruptcy Code, the U.S. Trustee's presence is permitted during a sealed hearing.

THE COURT: I think that was hard to hear, but I know what you said, so I'm going to say it again for everyone. Okay? Which is Section 107 of the Bankruptcy Code allows the Office of the United States Trustee to participate in any proceeding, even if a proceeding is a matter of confidentiality, without having to be bound by an order, because they are an arm of the Department of Justice, and they are governed by the Department of Justice. They're an agency of the Department of Justice.

So that it's clear, I agree with you, Attorney Claiborn, that you are allowed to remain in this courtroom even though we -- we're going to seal the record.

And the courtroom deputy will -- what we will do, and we can do, is as soon as I stop talking, which will be soon, believe me, then you're going to seal the recording. Okay? And we'll start, and then there'll be a point when we say, okay, now you can stop sealing the record, and then we'll reopen the record for the public when they can come back in. Because I'm sure people are going to make closing arguments or whatever they're going to do. Okay? So but I agree with -- that the U.S. Trustee's

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1 Office -- that Bankruptcy Code Section 107 allows the 2 bankruptcy -- allows the United States Trustee to 3 participate -- it's actually 107(b)(3) -- United States 4 Trustee, bankruptcy administrator, trustee, and any other 5 servicer under this shall have full access to all 6 information and shall not disclose information specifically 7 protected by the court under this title.

8 specifically protected by the Court under this title in 9 connection with the protective order. 10 All right.

11 before I instruct the courtroom deputy to seal the record? 12 Okay. 13 I would ask you to seal -- begin the recording as 14 sealed, please, at this point in time, and keep it sealed 15 until further instructions that we can go back on a public 16 record. Okay? Thank you. 17 (Record sealed at 5:31 p.m. to 5:54 p.m.) 18 THE COURT: All right.

19 the parties want to make closing statements? Plaintiff? 20 Not the plaintiff.

21 cause regarding Hudson Diamond Holding, LLC, and Ms. Guo. 22 So you can proceed, Ms. Wernick, first, if you'd like to 23 make a closing statement. 24 MS. WERNICK: Thank you, Your Honor.

25 briefly. As set forth in Ms. Guo's declaration, Ms. Guo and

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1 Hudson Diamond Holding took reasonable steps to comply with 2 the subpoena, many of which I participated with Ms. Guo in 3 terms of searching through email, searching through mobile 4 applications, searching through phone numbers, going to 5 Capital One bank and making requests for the record 6 specifically sought for by the subpoena.

7 MR. LUFT: Objection, Your Honor.

8 testifying now. 9 THE COURT: Yes, she is. So it's okay.

10 ahead. Go ahead. 11 MS. WERNICK:

12 and repeating the information that was previously submitted 13 in Ms. Guo's declaration.

14 comply with the subpoena.

15 responsive to the subpoena were produced to the trustee. 16 There is no basis for contempt under the record that's 17 before the Court. 18 And we'd otherwise submit on the papers with an 19 understanding that the trustee may look to submit further 20 applications in writing which we reserve the right to 21 respond to. 22 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. 23 Mr. Luft? 24 MR. LUFT: Thank you, Your Honor. May I approach? 25 THE COURT: Yes, you may.

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1 MR. LUFT:

2 has been a long day.

3 reasonable steps when they filed a declaration that almost 4 invariably Ms. Guo was instructed to assert the fifth as to 5 the basis for almost every question I asked her about it is 6 completely unsupported, if not -- if only because she 7 asserted the fifth amendment when I tried to probe on most 8 of those questions.

I think it's very clear from the record that Hudson Diamond Holdings -- every document we see indicates that it wholly owns Hudson Diamond New York. Ms. Guo took actions for years on behalf of Hudson Diamond New York, including withdrawing money, signing bank accounts, signing corporate documents. And now they are refusing to produce documents about Hudson Diamond New York for a claim that Ms. Guo was not able to substantiate in any way today that somehow Hudson Diamond Holdings isn't the owner of Hudson Diamond New York despite having all evidence to the contrary.

I think that it is quite clear that they have not taken reasonable steps to try to comply with the subpoena. They have cost the estate an astonishing amount of money in terms of how long we've had to pursue their compliance. This is a subpoena that I believe was served in December. We are here in August. Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 130 of

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 130 We have had multiple hearings, including two extra just relating to the confusion with regard to whether or not they even hired counsel. The trustee has been diligent. And at the end of the day, we get here, which is you heard Ms. Guo tell you, to the extent she was allowed to say anything, that she has produced two documents. We have no documents from Hudson Diamond New York. Clearly, there are significant assets that are moving through Hudson Diamond New York such that documents had to have been created, whether they are for ownership of a car, real estate transactions, multi-million dollars going through the account. And we are getting none of it. So they -- look, they seem content to allow contempt rulings. And if -- and I think the idea is that there'll be no one that we can try to enforce it upon. But we know who we should be enforcing it on. Ms. Guo clearly controls Hudson Diamond Holdings. Hudson Diamond Holdings clearly controls Hudson Diamond New York. So I believe contempt should be found. But I'm also going to ask, because I do not believe they have made any effort to do this yet, that they should be forced to go find Hudson Diamond New York's documents and turn them over to the trustee. And that should include the bank accounts. This testimony or lines that somehow Ms. Guo's name is not on that Capital One bank

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 131 account is clearly false. We saw the document. So, Your Honor, I'll rest there. But I believe a contempt is proper, and I really -- and we really need the documents. I'd ask that they be forced to produce the documents for Hudson Diamond New York. Thank you, Your Honor. THE COURT: Thank you. MS. WERNICK: Your Honor, a brief rebuttal? THE COURT: Brief. MS. WERNICK: All right. What we heard from Mr. Luft's presentation just now was almost nothing at all about Hudson Diamond Holdings, LLC, which was the entity we were compelled to appear for here today. It was almost entirely with regards to Hudson Diamond New York, an entity which I believe has already been held in contempt with respect to the separate subpoena that was served on that entity. That's not the subject of this proceeding. Your Honor already made a determination with respect to the New York entity. Which, again, none of us here today represent the New York -- THE COURT: Well, Mr. Romney still does unless and until his motion to withdraw is granted. So that's not accurate. MS. WERNICK: All right. My apologies, Your Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 131 of

1 Honor. I certainly don't represent Hudson Diamond -- 2 THE COURT: I understand. 3 MS. WERNICK: -- New York.

4 refers to some sort of extraordinary amount of evidence 5 connecting New York with Holdings, all that I've seen in the 6 proceeding today is a single document that was apparently 7 produced by the same law firm that told Mr. Vartan and 8 Mr. Romney that there was not a connection between the two. 9 And so, certainly, when Your Honor is considering 10 what this motion appears to really be about, to try to bring 11 back in New York, which I don't represent, which Hodgson 12 Russ is saying Ms. Guo wasn't the member of, we can sort of 13 short-circuit their burden of proof by just saying there's 14 an abundance of evidence connecting the two when there's one 15 document where the law firm that prepared the document says 16 the entities are not related. 17 So I'd rest with that. 18 THE COURT: Thank you. 19 MR. LUFT: Your Honor, I'll be brief.

20 approach? 21 THE COURT: Yes. 22 MR. LUFT:

23 doesn't represent Hudson Diamond New York.

24 Mr. Romney's declaration, he makes it very clear that 25 Ms. Guo hired both Attorney Vartan and Mr. Romney.

1 know if Ms. Wernick is being very specific that not her -- 2 that her firm wasn't hired but only Mr. Vartan.

3 certainly Mr. Vartan was hired from her law firm.

4 idea that they don't represent them is not true. 5 They say there was a single document.

6 know which one of the multiple documents we showed is the 7 single document, but we saw Mei Guo signing for a document. 8 We saw her signing a bank account on behalf of Holdings -- 9 on behalf of New York.

10 sole member of Holdings for New York.

11 countless testimonies in which Mr. -- Ms. Guo invoked the 12 fifth. 13 And I should have said this before, Your Honor.

14 absolutely think an adverse inference should be drawn from 15 all those fifth amendment assertions.

16 try to get information.

17 coming here, to understand something.

18 stonewalled with the fifth amendment. 19 Finally, as to the argument that I only spoke 20 about Hudson Diamond New York, I believe Your Honor has 21 ruled on this maybe 19 times when Ms. Wernick made the same 22 objection before. As Your Honor has pointed out to them and 23 as I've showed, the definition for Hudson Diamond Holdings' 24 subpoena clearly included all affiliates and all the other 25 various terms we used which clearly included Hudson Diamond

1 New York. 2 Hudson Diamond Holdings is the parent company.

3 has an obligation to produce -- make sure its subsidiary is 4 in compliance. They are clearly an affiliate.

5 have produced the documents.

6 improper, and it's -- and my asking for contempt as to 7 Holdings based on the fact that we've received nothing from 8 New York is completely on point for the subpoena we served. 9 Thank you, Your Honor. 10 THE COURT: Thank you. 11 All right.

12 to appear and show cause, we've -- I've heard argument 13 today. And there's been an invocation of the fifth 14 amendment as it relates to Ms. Guo individually.

15 indicated during the hearing that if the trustee wants to 16 file documents with regard to whether or not that invocation 17 of the fifth amendment is proper, you're entitled to do so. 18 And you can do so.

19 because you'd have to order a transcript and determine what 20 you want to do. 21 With regard to whether or not Hudson Diamond 22 Holdings, LLC will be held in contempt of court, the Court 23 will take that matter under advisement. 24 There is no further business of the Court today. 25 I'm not going to -- yeah.

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Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 135 other issues today. There are some issues that are outstanding on the trustee's side of the equation that have nothing to do with this matter, including a motion that I -- and you'll just -- there'll be a virtual order entered, and you'll take whatever action you need to take. You're looking for some -- an order on a subpoena that I -- the subpoena already had a specific period of time in it to serve out foreign defendants. But there was a request for an order. I don't know if you need that request. So we're going to issue some order that you can then respond to whether or not you actually need an order or if you can just rely on the subpoena yourself -- theirselves (sic). MR. LINSEY: I believe that there was a motion filed requesting an answer deadline with respect to the Golden Spring entity. THE COURT: And the subpoena has that time frame in it. MR. LINSEY: The subpoena -- this was an -- the answer for the Golden Spring adversary complaint was what I -- THE COURT: And I think the answer -- the subpoena has that time frame -- MR. LINSEY: Oh, you mean the summons has that?

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1 THE COURT: Did I say subpoena? Sorry. 2 MR. LINSEY: You did. That's why I was confused. 3 THE COURT:

4 all day. I apologize. I apologize. My mistake. 5 MR. LINSEY: Understood. 6 THE COURT: The summons. 7 MR. LINSEY: We'll look to that, Your Honor. 8 THE COURT: Okay. 9 MR. LINSEY: Thank you. 10 THE COURT: The summons. I apologize. 11 MR. LINSEY: Thank you. 12 THE COURT:

13 MR. LINSEY: Yeah. Understood. 14 THE COURT: -- a subpoena all day. I apologize. 15 Okay. There's no further business for the Court 16 today then. Thank you, all. Court is adjourned. 17 MR. LUFT: Thank you, Your Honor. 18 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: All rise.

19 adjourned.

2 I, CHRISTINE FIORE, court-approved transcriber and 3 certified electronic reporter and transcriber, certify that 4 the foregoing is a correct transcript from the official 5 electronic sound recording of the proceedings in the 6 above-entitled matter.

Ho Wan Kwok - August 22, 2023 138 INDEX WITNESS FOR THE TRUSTEE: Direct Cross Redirect Recross Mei Guo -- 9 TRUSTEE'S EXHIBITS: ID Received 1 Subpoena 16 17 2 Mei Guo Declaration 40 41 3 Hudson Diamond New York Consent 45 50 12 Of Sole Member 4 Caldwell Banker Real Estate Agreement 70 72 Case 22-50073 Doc 2168 Filed 09/05/23 Entered 09/05/23 16:03:57 Page 138 of